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  1. #61

    Default Re: "Powersafe" clutch on BCS

    Something to consider is that yes the 853 and 740 are similar machines, however for what ever reason BCS Italy has chosen to block off the 4th gear and there must be a reason for that. So I highly recommend anyone from modifying their 740 in the manner above.

    Having said that, I did compare an 853 with a 740 and found that both have the welded tab on the steering column base that prohibits the ability to shift the 853 into 4th gear with a front-mount attachment. It appears that one can, indeed, achieve the transport speed for rear-mount attachments in the 740 by changing two parts -- install the 853 gear shift quadrant (p/n 561.57239) and the 853 "joint" (552.47644). The joint has the elongated lobe that contacts the welded tab; thereby preventing the gear shift from going into 4th gear with front-mount attachments. Please note the joint should be ALWAYS used when doing this, that way it will lock out the high speed gear, so it doesn't run you over when accidently shifted into reverse!.. Think safety!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by skyborne98; 05-15-2012 at 05:11 PM.

  2. #62
    Platinum Member farmerboybill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    587
    Location
    Southwestern Wisconsin
    Tractor
    BCS 850 diesel and 735 diesel

    Default Re: "Powersafe" clutch on BCS

    Skyborne,

    Someone on here (Oldmech?) said they blocked it off for the new EU standards. On top of the rules that spawned the Powersafe (forward motion and power attachment needs to stop within a second and leave the engine running) the EU decided these machines were too dangerous over 10Km/H. Since 4th gear is 13.28 km/h, it had to be blocked. Frankly, with the violent stop that comes with stopping the wheels within one second, I am compelled to agree with them. What I don't understand is that they could have changed the gearing in the transmission to make 4th exactly 10km/h instead of eliminating it completely. After all, they recast the transmission housing to fit that Powersafe. I can't believe changing a sprocket or two in the new housing would have added much more expense

    All Grillo walk-behinds have had the transport gear blocked as well, but it's a simple matter of taking out a small bolt with three washers to regain transport. They never changed their transmission to comply with EU standards, but slightly changed the clutch and OPC to meet compliance. They are ordered by Joel without these changes so the machine that was sold in the US last year is the same machine this year - except for that bolt blocking out transport...
    BCS 850 w/ Kohler Diesel, 30" tiller, Berta double rotary plow, 18 inch combined ridger, Caravaggi BIO90 chipper, Bellon 32"rough cut mower, Del Morino 26 inch rough cut mower, trencher, 2 way plow, ridger,

    Deere 60, 2040, 3020, 4010, 4430, and all the implements to work 'em

  3. #63
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    425
    Location
    Quebec
    Tractor
    Two Gravely Two L One with 10 h.p Dek-Diesel engine one Grillo 107d and one BCS 735 diesel

    Default Re: "Powersafe" clutch on BCS

    Hi! I remimber I read the new EU rules . The maximum speed for two wheels tractors is 8 kmh or 5 mph. I think in near futur company as BCS or Grillo remove the 4th gear. Good luck Oldmech

  4. #64
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    123

    Default Re: "Powersafe" clutch on BCS

    We got and 852 that was brought from Canada since all the 853s were backordered. What I understood from Joel was that the final drive is a worm gear and the only difference between the 2(852 853) is one worm is left hand and the other right hand. The reason it will not reverse is because the 4th gear skips most of the transmission and locks the worm to the input shaft.

    So BCS would have to remake the worm and its driven to lower the max speed, and that would lower all the other gears also.

    Cory

  5. #65
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    24
    Location
    Germany
    Tractor
    BCS 740

    Default Re: "Powersafe" clutch on BCS

    Hi

    Thank you for all your input!

    As I only know the new PowerSafe clutch, I can't comment on the clutch issue.

    Like most of you, I'm also surprised and sad to see the 4th gear disappear. As mentioned above, the 4th gear hasn't disappeared all together, it has just been blocked.

    I am not a lawyer, but I read the directive 2006/42/EC this weekend. This paper has been in effect in the European Union since December 29th 2009, and my guess is, that the 4th gear has also been blocked to comply with this paper. In article 3.3.4 "Movement of pedestrian-controlled machinery" is stated, that "The speed of travel of the machinery must be compatible with the pace of a driver on foot." Sadly most of us can't walk at a pace of 8.35 mph

    Like some of you mention, walking behind the tractor in 4th gear at idle (3.25 mph) also makes more sense to me, than walking at full throttle in 3th gear (2.68 mph). But that's politics for you I guess!


    Best regards

    Jens
    Last edited by Jens767; 09-10-2012 at 06:54 PM. Reason: Incorrect idle speed

  6. #66
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    24
    Location
    Germany
    Tractor
    BCS 740

    Default Re: "Powersafe" clutch on BCS

    Hi again

    I fully agree, that when working with a potentially dangerous 2-wheel tractor, for sure safety shall be our top priority. I feel confident though, that the members of this great forum are all fully aware of that.

    The loss of the transport gear on the new BCS models seems to a frequent topic in this forum, so I decided to take my little test to the next level. As you can see on the pictures below, it all worked out fine

    On my BCS 740 I changed the gear quadrant and the joint to a BCS 853-type (p/n 561.57239 and p/n 552. 47644). As long as BCS does not remove the worm transport gear all together but just blocks it, this gives you the 4th transport gear almost for free.

    In order not to compromise safety, I also highly recommend you to change the joint to a BCS 853-type, if you change the quadrant! As seen on my photos, this will prevent you from accidentally selecting the transport gear when in the front-PTO (mowing) mode (left picture), as the joint and the welded tap seen on the far left, only allows the 4th gear to be selected when in the rear-PTO (tiller) mode (right picture), and will block it when in the front-PTO mode.

    In order to secure the joint to the gear lever, you will also need the pin (p/n 342.13022). As the gear quadrant comes without any placards, you might also want the decal (p/n 580.57704) too, in order to find the proper gear.

    Please do not forget, that because the worm transport gear bypasses the normal gearbox, it will always drive backwards when in the front-PTO mode, disregarding the position of the reverse lever!!!

    -dsc02923-jpg-dsc02925-jpg

    Best regards

    Jens

  7. #67
    Platinum Member farmerboybill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    587
    Location
    Southwestern Wisconsin
    Tractor
    BCS 850 diesel and 735 diesel

    Default Re: "Powersafe" clutch on BCS

    Hey Jens,

    Thanks for checking this out. It's good information to have. Now, WHY didn't BCS America order the "new" 749 with these changes for the US market???
    BCS 850 w/ Kohler Diesel, 30" tiller, Berta double rotary plow, 18 inch combined ridger, Caravaggi BIO90 chipper, Bellon 32"rough cut mower, Del Morino 26 inch rough cut mower, trencher, 2 way plow, ridger,

    Deere 60, 2040, 3020, 4010, 4430, and all the implements to work 'em

  8. #68
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,088
    Location
    Mt Crawford Va
    Tractor
    massey GC 2400 JD LA 145

    Default Re: "Powersafe" clutch on BCS

    I don't know much about BCS tractors but have wanted one for my garden. I read somewhere on line that a BCS dealer had ordered 2 machines with the new clutch and one did not work and needed major repairs from the start. He said he would not sell his customers a machine that had a 50% break down history in his shop. Any one else heard this?

  9. #69
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed of all trades View Post
    I don't know much about BCS tractors but have wanted one for my garden. I read somewhere on line that a BCS dealer had ordered 2 machines with the new clutch and one did not work and needed major repairs from the start. He said he would not sell his customers a machine that had a 50% break down history in his shop. Any one else heard this?
    That was said on this forum. It is my take there are bugs to work out, but I doubt its that bad.

  10. #70
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    110
    Location
    Hector NY
    Tractor
    BCS 605, 740, 850

    Default Re: "Powersafe" clutch on BCS

    I heard that there have been 2 clutch failures reported. One I know nothing about but one was run without the dipstick in place when they were chipping wood with the chipper/shredder. Wood chips got in the hydraulic oil which caused the pump to seize. These are repairable clutches for which BCS has issued a full repair overhaul manual. The clutch comes with a 5-year warranty verses the 3 year warranty on the standard spring clutch. The dealer that reported the "50% failure rate" must have changed his mind as I have had calls from his customers requesting operating details and the spec for the hydraulic oil in the transmission. Too bad he didn't buy from a local dealer who would have gone over the operating controls and gotten the oil spec.

    BCS has been selling their tractors with this same clutch for 3 years now. If they had a 50% failure rate they would not be still offering this product. I personally sold three units with the PowerSafe clutch system with no problems including on the 749 diesel powered unit.

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