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  1. #1
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    Default BCS Quick Hitch Tangs

    Most folks like quick hitch connection used by BCS (and others) to easily interchange attachments, A good idea and a real convenience for folks who use many attachments. As the quick hitch is an option you can still hard bolt the attachment to the tractor perhaps even using a PTO extension to improve balance. If the tang (male coupling) gets damaged or badly worn you can always interchange it with one that isn't damaged or buy a replacement for under $100. All this works quiet well.

    But somebody along the line said lets just order the attachments with the tangs already attached. Here permanently attached tangs cannot be easily swapped out if one is damaged or all rusted up AND now you can no longer hard bolt the attachment to the tractor. Someone who wants just the attachment now has to buy the quick hitch bushing just to mount it to the tractor. The hard bolted the attachment eliminates the quick hitch coupling making a more secure attachment for attachments that get a lot of pounding like a rotary plow, flail mower and the tiller.

    Now compound the dilemma if a manufacturer makes the permanent tang a little different like makes it undersize so it will fit easier. What do you get a bad fit, very loose and sloppy that will damage the whole coupling in time. The loose fit is not unlike the loose fit when the welds broke to the connection tube broke of the old TroyBilt Horse tillers. Somehow I don't want my Berta Franco rotary plow wobbling around on the back of my 853 like a broken down TroyBilt. Corrective action is being taken by BCS for the rotary plows they sell.

    I'm disappointed that I had to report this at a farm show in 8" of snow in Syracuse. Aren't they more southern BCS dealers with enough experience and integrity to report that this isn't right?

    My advice to any one who gets an attachment with a fixed tang is to check the fit mounted to the tractor. If it seems loose measure the diameter of the fixed tang and compare it to a BCS tang. The ones I found were .006 to .008" undersize. The largest diameter on the tang should be very close to 63.996mm. Hopefully we won't see any more fixed tangs. The BCS tangs are free from BCS when you buy the attachment with the 732, 740, 750, 852 or 853 tractor. If you just are adding an attachment and you have been a good customer some dealers will just throw them in.

  2. #2
    Platinum Member farmerboybill's Avatar
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    Default Re: BCS Quick Hitch Tangs

    Hi John

    You bring up some valid points. Let me work through them for you.

    1. Integral quick couplers are an option. A customer can buy an attachment with bolt-on coupler and use the OEM coupler if they choose.

    2. The Berta integral quick couplers can be as easily replaced as the bolt-on styles if worn. It's a matter of two bolts on the housing and an Allen screw in the PTO.

    3. How many integral couplers have you found with issues? I have heard of none.

    4. The quick coupler kits are only free until BCS America decides they're not. They're actually $245 for one female coupler and two male tangs . Extra males for multiple implements are $80 each.

    5. You must have different dealers around you. Few "throw in" anything. Few will even order a machine unless it's paid for. How many people are gonna buy an 853 with tiller for $4500 sight unseen? I called my 10 closest dealers and one had an 853. At the MOSES Organic Farming Conference in La Crosse, WI three weeks ago, I talked with a person who bought an 853 this past year from a dealer in northern Illinois. He talked her out of her free quick couplers, but "threw in" a hiller/furrower. Basically, he took away the "free" quick coupler kit worth $245 and gave her a $100 hiller/furrower. Real swell fellow. After I told her this, she was very upset and said she'd be calling him. Hope she got her couplers.

    As I mentioned, integral quick couplers are an option. If the customer does not want one, they don't have to buy one. It's really about having more options.

    Bill in WI
    BCS 850 w/ Kohler Diesel, BCS 735 w/ Acme diesel, Agrizeta tracks, 30" tiller, Berta double rotary plow, Berta 33" 2 stage snow blower, 18 inch combined ridger, Caravaggi BIO90 chipper, Bellon 32"rough cut mower, Caravaggi stump grinder, BCS 59" duplex mower, Pallidino 20" flail mower, Ravenna trailer, trencher, 2 way plow, ridger,

    John Deere B, 60, 4430 open station, 4430 SGB, 4840, 317 skid steer, and all the implements to work 'em

  3. #3
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    Default Re: BCS Quick Hitch Tangs

    Hello Bill,

    1. The integral tang is an option only if they are offered without the tang. BCS rotary plows came through all with the integral tangs as far as I can tell. I believe that will be the last time ever.

    2. Who is going to have the Berta replacement integral tang on hand when they need it verses just grabbing a BCS tang off another attachment and keep on plowing?

    3. I have four bad Berta tangs and the distributor has all the ones in his stock which we assume are the same. The ones I have are very consistent. I wonder about the other Berta attachments if they made these undersize. Who gave them the wrong dimensions or didn't check them when they came in? The hole seems to be off in position but I don't have good measuring tools to say how much. The Berta Franco is well made tool with which I am very pleased. I am happy I helped BCS America make the decision to bring them and support them in North America.

    4. For six years BCS has offered the free quick hitch with the professional tractors. A pretty good precedent which costs them very little. It also gets the registrations returned to them which is a requirement for liability insurance.

    5. If the user was going to use only one attachment giving them a Hiller/furrower may be a better deal. The quick hitch cost the dealer nothing once they submit the registration and proof of sale so there is no reason for a dealer to "cheat" anyone out of them.

    6. As I say on the first page of my website if you have a good local dealer you should always deal with them. Developing a local dealer is a benefit to everyone in the area. In my opinion buying your food and equipment locally is part of the whole sustainability concept. I enjoy meeting the users more than trying to sell 10 more machines.

  4. #4
    Platinum Member farmerboybill's Avatar
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    Default Re: BCS Quick Hitch Tangs

    Hi John,

    Unfortunately, I sold my last bolt-on rotary plow on Wednesday, so I could not do a side-by-side picture to show you that quick couplers are an option. The one I sold last week was brand new, fresh from Berta in Italy, not one that was left over from last year. I should be getting another bolt-on style plow late next week and will post a pic as soon as I get it.

    The first and last pics I uploaded show a brand new Berta flail mower with integral quick coupler. As you can see, they slightly rounded the hole to get a couple degree's of tilt when going over rough terrain. The second and third pic show the rotary plow with integral quick coupler. The coupler for the plow and the mower are the same, they just drilled the two holes opposite - the coupler can be flipped to suit the attachment. I REALLY wish I could have shown you the bolt-on style as well. As you can see, the coupler unbolts with four bolts. A bolt-on type coupler can then be mounted. They're an OPTION. If a customer wants the quick coupler integral, they can have it. If a customer has the concerns you stated, they can buy a bolt-on and then bolt on the coupler.

    If you'd like to measure if they got the hole positioned wrong, why don't you mount one to a tractor, then mount a bolt-on one to a tractor and compare the degree of tilt on the plows.

    If BCS America got only quick coupler plows, they ordered them that way. If Berta got the coupler wrong as you stated, BCS America can buy just the attachment point and change them all out. BCS's quick coupler is kinda hard to duplicate because they put the shoulder in them. This supposedly is to make them easier to align, but I disagree. It makes them more likely to wedge when grit gets in there. The Grillo coupler is much simpler to make.



    As far as the dealer who switched out the couplers for the furrower, the customer had bought two attachments. She wanted the couplers, but he talked her outta them. He said they weren't strong enough. Now he can put in for the couplers and put them on his shelf to resell. Maybe he didn't do that, but maybe he did.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails BCS Quick Hitch Tangs-0317120837a-jpg   BCS Quick Hitch Tangs-0317120840c-jpg   BCS Quick Hitch Tangs-0317120841b-jpg   BCS Quick Hitch Tangs-0317120838a-jpg  
    Last edited by farmerboybill; 03-18-2012 at 07:18 AM.
    BCS 850 w/ Kohler Diesel, BCS 735 w/ Acme diesel, Agrizeta tracks, 30" tiller, Berta double rotary plow, Berta 33" 2 stage snow blower, 18 inch combined ridger, Caravaggi BIO90 chipper, Bellon 32"rough cut mower, Caravaggi stump grinder, BCS 59" duplex mower, Pallidino 20" flail mower, Ravenna trailer, trencher, 2 way plow, ridger,

    John Deere B, 60, 4430 open station, 4430 SGB, 4840, 317 skid steer, and all the implements to work 'em

  5. #5
    Platinum Member farmerboybill's Avatar
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    Default Re: BCS Quick Hitch Tangs

    Hi John,

    As promised, pics of the rotary plows with both the bolt-on flange and the quick coupler flange. If BCS America or one of their dealers hate the quick coupler flange, they can order the bolt-on flange.

    Bill
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails BCS Quick Hitch Tangs-0330121420a-jpg   BCS Quick Hitch Tangs-0330121420b-jpg   BCS Quick Hitch Tangs-0330121421a-jpg  
    BCS 850 w/ Kohler Diesel, BCS 735 w/ Acme diesel, Agrizeta tracks, 30" tiller, Berta double rotary plow, Berta 33" 2 stage snow blower, 18 inch combined ridger, Caravaggi BIO90 chipper, Bellon 32"rough cut mower, Caravaggi stump grinder, BCS 59" duplex mower, Pallidino 20" flail mower, Ravenna trailer, trencher, 2 way plow, ridger,

    John Deere B, 60, 4430 open station, 4430 SGB, 4840, 317 skid steer, and all the implements to work 'em

  6. #6
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    Default Re: BCS Quick Hitch Tangs

    Bill,

    Thank you for posting the pictures of the Grillo version of Berta rotary plow with the bolt coupling and the 18mm PTO shaft Grillo dedicated quick hitch tang. It makes my point exactly. If something damages the Grillo dedicated tang on their Berta rotary plow you cannot change it over the standard tang and continue plowing. You have to get a replacement. Since you bought the quick hitch system for easy interchangeability you want common parts not special parts dedicated to one device. It seems Henry Ford taught us about interchangeable parts about 100 years ago.

  7. #7
    Platinum Member farmerboybill's Avatar
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    Default Re: BCS Quick Hitch Tangs

    Hi John,

    I disagree that my photos make your point exactly. They show that the customer has an option to go with a bolt-on flange or a quick coupler flange.

    The quick coupler flange offers many advantages you seem to have missed.

    1. Cost. An attachment with quick coupler flange is $25 more than one with bolt-on flange. If a customer wants to buy the quick couplers for his machines, it is a $35 savings.

    2. Positioning. The quick coupler flange is closer to the transmission versus a bolt-on flange with bolt-on quick coupler. This means the plow is a couple inches further from you. It also helps balance the relatively heavy plow to the engine, making it a lighter lift.

    3. Strength. The more the bolts holding something together, the more places to loosen. an integral quick coupler eliminates two bolts to keep tight and a couple inches of length. Further, there is ONE LESS PTO part. Tangs are essentially PTO extensions. With a bolt-on tang, you have one more PTO shaft. I know of few if any situations where you would damage the bolt-on quick coupler to the point that it is unusable, but the attachment is undamaged. If something does happen and you have a Berta Flail mower, you can rob one off it. If not, a new flange is a couple days away.

    You mentioned it being a "very loose and sloppy fit". .006 to .008 (by your measurements) does not fit that description. I do know that BCS quick couplers are so closely built that they can be a real pain to mount and dismount. Sure, they look and work great on a brand new machine and a clean socket, but get a couple hours use and gritty material in the connection and they become...difficult. They allow very little room to keep them lubricated. They could benefit from .006 to .008 of "slop". I deal with this often with my BCS 850 and various attachments. The longer the tang is used, the better it fits. Do you mean to say that I should be throwing them away and buying new ones as soon as they get "worn in"? Grillo has a grease zerk built right in to their female coupler. An owner can grease the pin, socket, and PTO without taking the attachment off. They're a much simpler, just as effective design.

    It's as simple as I first stated - if a customer is buying the quick couplers anyway, they can get an attachment with the quick coupler integral. If they are not buying the quick couplers, they can buy one with a bolt-on flange. It all comes down to giving the customer options. You know, like powersafe clutch versus cone clutch...
    BCS 850 w/ Kohler Diesel, BCS 735 w/ Acme diesel, Agrizeta tracks, 30" tiller, Berta double rotary plow, Berta 33" 2 stage snow blower, 18 inch combined ridger, Caravaggi BIO90 chipper, Bellon 32"rough cut mower, Caravaggi stump grinder, BCS 59" duplex mower, Pallidino 20" flail mower, Ravenna trailer, trencher, 2 way plow, ridger,

    John Deere B, 60, 4430 open station, 4430 SGB, 4840, 317 skid steer, and all the implements to work 'em

  8. #8
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    Default Re: BCS Quick Hitch Tangs

    Bill.

    My point is interchangeability between attachments allowing any tang to fit any attachment. But you mention some points that are wrong in my opinion.

    1. Tangs are free with BCS or can be moved from a rarely used attachment to one for which you have no tang., interchangeability.

    2. An extension on the rotary plow makes it plow much better especially in heavy packed soils. Some extension is required with 6.5x12 wheels and tires and the BCS quick hitch does that at no charge. The rotary plow is not a heavy attachment weighing less than the 30" tiller, the duplex sickle bar, and BCS flail mowers.

    3. BCS Tangs rarely ever come loose but they do get damaged when the loose attachment is sliding around in a pickup going from one site to another.

    4. Having .006" to .008" undersize tang makes a very loose connection making the Berta plow (Berta Mower?) fit very loosely with nothing you can do about it but hopefully get Berta to make a correct sized fixed tang or better yet get rid of it and replace it with an interchangeable tang.

  9. #9
    Platinum Member farmerboybill's Avatar
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    Default Re: BCS Quick Hitch Tangs

    Hi John,

    Those are your opinions, John. I disagree with them. The customers can decide if they agree with you or me.

    Bill
    BCS 850 w/ Kohler Diesel, BCS 735 w/ Acme diesel, Agrizeta tracks, 30" tiller, Berta double rotary plow, Berta 33" 2 stage snow blower, 18 inch combined ridger, Caravaggi BIO90 chipper, Bellon 32"rough cut mower, Caravaggi stump grinder, BCS 59" duplex mower, Pallidino 20" flail mower, Ravenna trailer, trencher, 2 way plow, ridger,

    John Deere B, 60, 4430 open station, 4430 SGB, 4840, 317 skid steer, and all the implements to work 'em

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