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  1. #1
    Platinum Member farmerboybill's Avatar
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    BCS 850 diesel and 735 diesel

    Default Regarding BCS dealer's stocking a pricing.

    Hey John,

    A while back you posted this on another topic -


    Quote Originally Posted by BCSSHOP View Post
    All of the new BCS models are available from any BCS dealer and many are selling them cheaper than Earth Tools. The 739 is priced the same as the 732 but with one more forward speed for both front and rear mounted attachments. Understand you can now get the the 739 with the hydraulic clutch and 3 working speed for the same price as the 732 with only 2 working speeds. BCS has to be careful as the 739 will replace the 732, 740, 852, and 853 for anyone who does not need the steering brakes. The wheel speeds on the 739 are the same as the 740. The actual net power output of the GX340 is only slightly more than 1 hp less than the GX390 engine.


    For 2013 BCS instituted a MAP program where MAP stands for Minimum Advertised Price which can be no lower than 5% off the suggest retail price, BUT they also began a $300 savings on all the larger units which include the 732, 739, 740, 749, 750 and 853. This $300 savings is at the discretion of the distributor and the individual dealer. We can't advertise this lower price on the units but you can call us or any dealer to get their price. The 732 and the 739 are much less than $2900 making them a very good value in my opinion. I will get my first 739 this week. If anyone wants one for this season I suggest you don't hesitate as there aren't many in North America. I hope this is useful!
    Though I disagreed, I chose not to say anything. While at the conference, some things came to light that prodded me into making a response.

    You know as well as I that what you state about prices is a pure, bold-faced lie. Most BCS dealers in the US are non-stocking or very low stocking dealers. I, as a podunk selling-them-out-of-my-dirt-floor-garage Grillo dealer, stock at least twice as many Grillo tractors as 90% of BCS dealers stock BCS tractors. Most BCS dealers have BCS as a short line to sell alongside other manufacturers like DR, Simplicity, Arien's, Troy-bilt, etc. Since they sell these cheaper machines 5 to 1 over BCS tractors, they are understandably unwilling to have $10,000+ tied up in 3 tractors and 6 attachments. If you even want to look at a machine that they don't have on-hand, you'll have to put a down payment on it and pay full retail and maybe freight. They are more willing to sell the customer a Troy Bilt tiller or Ariens snow blower they have on hand than they are to bring in a BCS for a customer to "look at".

    If a customer calls their local non-stocking dealer and states what you say about the MAP pricing, they are more likely to get hung up on than they are to get the $300 off the tractor that the local dealer is going to have to order.

    I stock most of the parts that commonly fail, including OPC levers and tiller tines, for both BCS and Grillo. A HUGE majority of BCS dealers DO NOT stock these most basic parts. In fact, a customer can't get the proper tines for older tillers from any BCS dealer - including you. BCS dealers sell only the long tines that are a royal PITA to install. Unless something has changed recently, they don't even give the customer an instruction sheet on how to install them. The only way to get the right tines for a BCS tiller from the 80's and early 90's is from Earth Tools.

    There is a reason why Earth Tools sells ONE THIRD of the BCS tractors in the US. The machines they sell are not staying local. Earth Tools is several miles off anything resembling a main highway. You have to cross a flowing creek (yeah in the water) to get to their building. They do NO advertising beyond their website and a half dozen shows a year and yet they're the biggest US dealer by orders of magnitude. Why? They simply have the greatest knowledge of the machines, the most attachment options, the most parts availability, and the best prices.

    You have been telling people that Grillo is an unreliable machine with an unreliable dealer network. I talked with two at the conference that you stated this to. You seem to forget to mention that Grillo is imported by Earth Tools to compliment the BCS lineup. The tractors compliment each other more than they compete. But I'll tell you what - Grillo is very close to becoming the leader in the US market in terms of the machines they offer. As long as BCS keeps coming up with machines like the 739 (the G107d is a better tractor. Not because it's better quality - they're equal - but because it offers more features than the 739 in a simpler design for less money), they will slip. As long as BCS America keeps a large, but poor, network of dealers, they will slip.
    BCS 850 w/ Kohler Diesel, 30" tiller, Berta double rotary plow, 18 inch combined ridger, Caravaggi BIO90 chipper, Bellon 32"rough cut mower, Del Morino 26 inch rough cut mower, trencher, 2 way plow, ridger,

    Deere 60, 2040, 3020, 4010, 4430, and all the implements to work 'em

  2. #2
    Veteran Member
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    massey GC 2400 JD LA 145

    Default Re: Regarding BCS dealer's stocking a pricing.

    Our local dealer had prices $500 over list the last time I checked.

  3. #3
    Silver Member
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    Hector NY
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    BCS 605, 740, 850

    Default Re: Regarding BCS dealer's stocking a pricing.

    Bill, I never respond to someone who calls me a liar. My statement was informational and correct. We had an outstanding year last year and are off to an even better start this year. I speak with my actions not opinions! BCS Shop, Harvard MA

  4. #4
    New Member
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    Feb 2013
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    Owenton, Ky
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    BCS 850

    Default Re: Regarding BCS dealer's stocking a pricing.

    Hi there,

    I have never posted on this site before, but I just wanted to set the record straight on a few things:

    While FarmerBoy is correct about the fact that a lot of folks buy from us because of our level of expertise with walk-behind tractors and our massive stock of implements and accessories (many of which are not offered by other dealers, since we import them or build them ourselves) -- Earth Tools (my business) does NOT sell "over one-third" of the BCS tractors in the U.S. (We probably sell about one-third of the 800-series machines in the U.S., but not total units.)

    Now, I haven't taken the time to read all the posts, but it seems there has been some discussion about BCS vs. Grillo dealers, and perhaps the reliability of them..? What I can say about that is this: With my father's business before me, we have been BCS dealers for longer than almost any other dealer in North America (since 1977). In the operation of our business (which puts us in touch with BCS owners all across North America), it has become painfully obvious that MOST BCS dealers in North America do not provide high-quality service to their customers...but this is really just indicative of the general lack of good service from most retail establishments these days. Shoot, when a customer can get better service from us over the phone, 2000 miles away (including getting parts to them faster and correct advice about a repair) than he can from a local dealer...that "local" dealer doesn't deserve to be supported, in my opinion.

    Now, there certainly ARE some very good BCS dealers out there as well...and if a customer wants to buy from them, we certainly support that. We do not advertise "super-low" prices, because we do not want to compete unfairly with anyone, least of all, "good" dealers. Furthermore, we offer our selection of implements and accessories from independent manufacturers (at a discount that leaves us making virtually nothing) to ANY BCS dealer who wants to buy them from us and resell them to a customer. Therefore, any BCS dealer who wants to represent all the options we offer can do so...we are not trying to keep a monopoly on what we offer. All a dealer has to do is call us.

    Now, regarding Grillo dealers: We know them ALL, because we set them all up (we are the Grillo distributor for North America), and I can say this with certainty: Grillo dealers are, by and large, better quality dealers than the "AVERAGE" BCS dealer. Not only do they have to meet our standards in the first place to become dealers, but their direct up-line suppliers are "(arguably) THE walk-behind tractor experts of North America", which gives them an advantage. It is true that Grillo dealers are not very numerous at this time...we believe in quality rather than quantity. We add a few more every year, and we are happy with this growth rate.

    Another thing I want to point out is that the BCS "Powersafe" hydraulic clutch is, by our standards, NOT PROVEN. We purchased only 2 BCS machines with this new feature last year...and guess what? One of them failed IMMEDIATELY...the micropump in the hydraulic clutch locked up within 2 minutes. I talked to another BCS dealer in the Northeast, and he had EXACTLY THE SAME EXPERIENCE. NOT a good record...50% failure rate is bad by anybody's standards. In my opinion, BCS has some more homework to do on this design. While BCS's "standard" cone clutch design was not perfect, we at least knew how to make them work properly, and it is relatively field-serviceable. Now, on the other hand, the Grillo cone clutch has caused NO problems for us...it is a design that WORKED 35 years ago, and they stuck with it because it WORKED. It is even easier (and cheaper) to service than any BCS clutch manufactured in the last 20 years. There is something to be said for simplicity. So, I would not, at this point in time, advertise the BCS hydraulic clutch as a "sales feature"...it may turn out to be a liability more than a feature. This is why we still stock the BCS 852 and 853 (which have the "standard" clutch), and will continue to do so as long as we can get them.
    The other thing I dislike about the hydraulic clutch is that with the "automatic braking" system they have designed into it, the "transport speed" has been eliminated on all BCS models that have it. (reasons: #1. There is a safety standard that has taken effect in Europe stating that walk-behind equipment cannot exceed 8 KPH [about 5mph]; and #2. With the "automatic braking" system in the hydraulic clutch, if you were to release the safety handle on the clutch while in "transport" gear, you would likely be impaled on the handlebars, the stop is so sudden.) The fact is that this European safety standard should not affect the equipment we receive here...I feel it is an arbitrary law, and takes away from the utility of this type of equipment. Many of our customers appreciate the fact that they can use the Transport speed of the tractor to pull a cart around their property at up to 8.3 mph...and so far, I know of not a single person that was ever injured in this application. Therefore, I feel that the deletion of the transport gear on BCS "powersafe" machines is a "minus."
    The Grillo machines still come with this speed available...it is "blocked out" at the factory by a bolt and washers (in order to meet the European safety standard), but this bolt can be removed (they are installed with thread-locker compound, so they are tight, but not impossible to remove) by the operator if they want the higher speed available for the implements they choose. This is a nice feature, and to me, more forward-thinking of the manufacturer: giving the customers the choice, rather than dictating.

    Best regards to all.

  5. #5
    Platinum Member farmerboybill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding BCS dealer's stocking a pricing.

    John,

    You cannot honestly tell me that you believe that many BCS dealers will sell the 732 or 739, in your words, for "much less than $2900". On your own website you have it listed at $3086 (5% below MSRP). Are you telling me that you'll sell a 732 or 739 for $2786 to anyone who asks for the discount? MSRP, according to BCSamerica.com (BTW, they really upgraded their site very recently - very nice) is $3249. $300 off that is $2949. Not exactly "much less than $2900". Now maybe I should not have called your comment a "pure, bold-faced lie". Perhaps I should have called it a "deliberate misstatement". The only way it isn't is if you'll sell a 732 or 739 for $2786
    BCS 850 w/ Kohler Diesel, 30" tiller, Berta double rotary plow, 18 inch combined ridger, Caravaggi BIO90 chipper, Bellon 32"rough cut mower, Del Morino 26 inch rough cut mower, trencher, 2 way plow, ridger,

    Deere 60, 2040, 3020, 4010, 4430, and all the implements to work 'em

  6. #6
    Silver Member
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    BCS 605, 740, 850

    Default Re: Regarding BCS dealer's stocking a pricing.

    I sell the BCS 732 and 739 for $2786. I delivered one Sunday and will deliver one tomorrow. I don't need any more of your rotten name calling and miss-information. I run my business with honesty and integrity. John Wilhelm, 28 Tahanto Trail, Harvard MA 01451, cell phone 508-254-1964

  7. #7
    Silver Member
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    Hector NY
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    BCS 605, 740, 850

    Default Re: Regarding BCS dealer's stocking a pricing.

    To add to my previous post I want to say that I personally setup up all the equipment I sell and it is delivered by me or pickup up in Harvard MA, Hector NY or at the warehouse in Victor NY. I even drive the the Canadian border crossing for customers in Ontario and Quebec. Every customer gets at least a one hour orientation and maintenance lesson from me. Every customer gets all the included extras supplied by BCS with their attachments, like spare cutter bar, extra tines, flails, chipper knife, plow tips etc. I sell only BCS supported attachments so my customers are assured a continuous supply of parts for their equipment no matter where they move.

    I stock over $60,000 in BCS parts and ship worldwide. I give advice by phone, email, Facebook, text sometimes to very late hours. I supply those tines you say are not available except from Earth Tools which are available on-line. I support my local distributor buying everything I can from them as I need them to support me. As much as you and Earth Tools want to discredit us independent regional dealers we are here serving our customers. If they don't like our service and our policies they are welcome shop elsewhere.

    I just blew snow with my new BCS 739 with the hydraulic clutch and I love it. The light clutch is a delight with cold fingers. The third speed is beautiful using light throttle the snow was gone quickly. The parking brake is useful as the machine will want to move slightly on slopes with the engine running while you remove debris. In MY opinion this is the direction of the future and I welcome it. A hydrostatic transmission would be nice too but not at the expense of robust PTO drive.

    Least you and readers think we are fat cats driving Mercedes SUVs you want to know that my wife and I are investing all the after tax profits from the BCS Shop into helping young adults here in Schuyler County NY. These young people are my motivation to run a successful business. We get double the pleasure by seeing our efforts get young people off drugs, off probation and going to school. Who'd have thought a conservative republican would do such things but if you can't help the next generation what the **** good are you? So Bill call us names and put out miss-information about BCS but our customers and these kids are our priority.

  8. #8
    Platinum Member farmerboybill's Avatar
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    BCS 850 diesel and 735 diesel

    Default Re: Regarding BCS dealer's stocking a pricing.

    John,

    As I have said repeatedly on here, I respect you and the business you have built. You are definitely among the best of the BCS dealers. You have always given good advice and I am sure you give your customers 100%. I retract what I have said about you stating misinformation on pricing regarding YOUR business. My issue is with the implication you have put out there that all dealers operate on the level you operate.

    You are an exception. Many dealers (all the dealers near me, for sure) do not practice the level of business you do. It's as simple as that. The most recent dealer here is foremost a Case New Holland dealer. Not only do the salespeople not know much about the machines, they do not CARE to know about them. They can make a lot more commission on an $80,000 tractor than they can on a 3-5000 dollar tractor. Same for the service department repairing them and parts departments selling parts. BCS America's distributors have decided that a pretty sales floor and a snazzy shop is MORE important than genuine knowledge or care for what the customer wants. If every dealer of every brand of equipment operated as you do, this country would be in a better place.

    I want to especially give you kudos for what you do with the young adults.
    BCS 850 w/ Kohler Diesel, 30" tiller, Berta double rotary plow, 18 inch combined ridger, Caravaggi BIO90 chipper, Bellon 32"rough cut mower, Del Morino 26 inch rough cut mower, trencher, 2 way plow, ridger,

    Deere 60, 2040, 3020, 4010, 4430, and all the implements to work 'em

  9. #9
    Elite Member TomSeller's Avatar
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    Default

    I have an older BCS and am lucky enough to not need service, new tillers or parts, but I do have to say I have visited BCSHOP's website may times and my impression of them is top shelf.

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