Bought another used BCS this evening.

[oughtsix]

I think I was 12 or so the first time I ran a rototiller. My mother wouldn't let me operate the rental front tine tiller to break new ground to enlarge our vegetable garden... but my dad would. Some time later after I was off to college my parents bought a Troy built Pony. Man, was that nice in comparison! When I moved back to Oregon and bought my second house some time in the early 90's I decided to pick up a second hand Troy built. After months of searching I came across something called a Mainline/BCS tiller in the want adds (yes, pre-Internet we would look in the news paper for used equipment).

What I purchased for $200 was a Mainline tiller that was already about 20 years old. It came with an Acme 10hp rope start engine, locking differential, 5x10 wheels with wheel breaks and a 26" tiller box very similar to a 735 model BCS. I literally cut out an entire hill with that tiller. The 10hp Acme was always temperamental but after a friend borrowed it is was just trashed! After much tinkering and eventually taking the Acme apart I ended up putting a new 13hp Honda engine on it. This served me well until the tines broke off the tiller box about a year ago. The threaded portion of the threaded shaft the tines bolt to broke rendering the tiller box useless. I did center bore this shaft and tap it so I could use a bolt to secure the tines instead of the nut on the threaded shaft but never got the tiller gear box back together. I have been looking for a replacement box since.

A couple days ago I found a 715 with a bad engine on craigslist for $300. I called and went over there this evening to look at it. To my surprise the 8hp acme kicked in with a dose of gasoline in the carb on the first pull! I am sure the carb needs a good cleaning but I was surprise at how well the motor ran for 15 seconds until the gasoline was exhausted. After hearing the engine kick over I was happy to pay $300 for it but walked away paying $240 for it.

My plan was to pull the tiller box from the 715 and put it onto my 735 (I still don't know if it is a splined or 3 dog pto on the 715). Now I am thinking that I can get the Acme running well with a little work. With the possibility of having 2 running tractors I am thinking of swapping parts between the two to make them more suitable for my use. I am thinking of swapping the Acme and the 4x8 wheels to the 735 and use it with my mower attachment (Mowing seems like it would be easier with a differential and wheel breaks). Then I would have the 13hp honda and bigger wheels on the 715 for tilling where a differential and wheel breaks aren't really needed. My mowing deck is a brand new 22" BCS deck that I picked up a while ago for $150 but it was made for a 200 series BCS tractor which has a different mount. I haven't had a chance to figure out how to connect a 200 series deck to a conventional series tractor. I think I will have to do some fabrication to make it work.

My understanding is the 20" tiller box is the same gear box as the 26? I also believe the transmission in the 715 is as heavy duty as the 735 transmission but just doesn't have the differential? Will the 715 handle the power of the 13hp honda? I really love the honda for tilling because I can run the engine, and hence tines, really slow for breaking ground and still have plenty of torque from the big 13hp engine. 8hp seems like it should be plenty for mowing with the

 

[farmerboybill]

Congratulations on your new machine. The Mainline 735 is a BCS 735 with a "Mainline" sticker on it. The 715 and the 735 have the same transmission, except the 735 has diff lock, hi/lo, and steering brakes. They are both spline PTO. I'd keep the 13 hp on the 735 as it has more potential to run bigger equipment. 8 hp is more than enough to run a 26" tiller on a machine dedicated to tilling.

Is the tiller you received with the 715 grey or blue? Does it have the depth control handle sticking out the top or underneath? The tillers with the depth control out the top have a larger diameter cross shaft and can take more abuse then the older ones.

The 200 series mower may or may not be adapted to the 700 series. I have not heard of it being done and there is no factory built adapter. You may be better off finding a 42 inch 3 blade or 38 inch 2 blade mower with the slow ground speed of the 735...

 

[oughtsix]

The tiller box on the 715 is the grey version with the depth control underneath like my ancient 735. I didn't go out to the shop to compare them but the tines on the 715 seem shorter than I remember the tines on my 735 being???

After I posted last night I gave the 715 a serious looking over. It is in really good shape. There is hardly any wear on the tines... or anywhere for that matter. The plastic hood is in tack but has the usual crack in the top. The tires look new but flat with tubes that won't hold air. The carburetor was half disassembled on the tractor itself with pieces of the carb in a plastic bag taped to the engine. I pulled the rest of the carb and tossed it in my ultrasonic cleaner. It is now pristine but could use some new seals. I am really thinking of putting a carb kit and a little work into it then selling it next spring and using the proceeds to buy a rotary plow. The only things that are currently missing are the air cleaner and the fuel line between the tank and the carburetor.

Any one know where to get a carb kit? The engine is a 290 and I believe the carb is a PM25. The screen filter in the inlet of the carburetor is missing the rubber seal around the screen. This seems to be the worst of the problem with the carburetor.

Were the heaver duty blue box tillers ever made with a spline PTO?



P.S. Thank you for the information FarmBoyBill!

 

[farmerboybill]

They made the heavier duty tillers from the mid 80's to 1994 in spline PTO. The first ones were grey like yours, but had the depth control out the top. Any tiller with a flat top is spline PTO. The Grillo tiller also has the spline PTO. You can buy one new that will bolt right up to your BCS with no adapter.

Dunno 'bout carb kits. Earth Tools has some parts for them, but no rebuild kit. They only have a modified carb that you mount in place of yours. If it's just O-rings, I imagine you can get them anywhere, but it's best to talk to ET.

 

[oughtsix]

Thank you for the information FarmerBoyBill!

The intake on the carb has a screen with a seal molded around screen that has rotted away (Probably ethanol gasoline). After reading your post I think I will just replace this screen with an O-ring and put an inline filter in the fuel line instead. There are a couple of fiber washers that act as seals. The one that goes under the needle is of particular concern to me as it is quite thick and I am guessing it sets the spacing for the needle.

I did get the carburetor back on last night and all plumbed. Gasoline poured out of it! I screwed in the needle valve above the float all the way in when I reassembled the carb, I think this is my problem. When I was screwing this needle valve in I remember it getting much tighter after a couple of turns... now that I think about it I bet there is a reason why it got much tighter. Hopefully I will have a chance tonight to pull the carburetor, adjust the needle valve and replace the screen with an O-ring.

I really appreciate the information on tiller boxes. I will know what to look for if I decide to sell the 715. I assume the tines on the Grillo are different than the BCS tines? Are the tines and shafts on the new BCS tillers different than the old tillers? I usually run a narrow tiller for breaking ground then put the extra tines on for working in the compost. It would be nice if I could use my existing tines and shafts to make a narrow tiller wider if the old are compatible with the new?

 

[oughtsix]

I pulled out the screen from where the gasoline enters the carburetor and replaced it with an appropriately sized O-ring. This eliminated 90% of the leaking gas. There is still an occasional drip that I believe is coming from around the screw that holds the cover piece on. I will have to make a new washer for around the screw tomorrow. I did unscrew the needle valve over the float a couple turns at the same time but I believe the gasoline was coming from the filter screen cover.

I also replaced the piece of vinyl tubing I used as a temporary fuel line last night (the tiller came with no fuel line) with some real fuel line I picked up from Nappa on the way home tonight. I gave the starting cord a pull and she fired right up! UHHH.... One little problem!!!!! Where the heck is the kill switch?!?!??!?!? After hunting for a minute I closed the throttle down and smothered the carb air intake with the heal of my hand to kill the engine. There is no way these really came with no kill switch is there??!?!?!?

I do have some confusion on how the fuel line is supposed to be run? Does it go over the exhaust port or below it? I really don't like how the exhaust port is between the carburetor and the fuel tank. Running the fuel line above or below seems to leave it very exposed to getting snagged on something or it is very close to the hot exhaust manifold/muffler. Does anyone have a picture of the fuel line routing on a 8hp Acme bolted to a 715 they could share with me?

The engine itself seemed very loud (I am used to a Honda GX390). The engine also was shooting some flames out the muffler. Is it running too rich? I tried adjusting the only adjustment screw on the carb I could find but it didn't seem to do much? Is the screw over the needle also an adjustment? I thought the screw over the needle was just a cap and screwed it down pretty tight. I seem to remember my 10 hp Acme running a bit noisy and shooting flames so may be this is just how they are supposed to run?

I would have taken it out of the shop to till some dirt but both tires are flat. I took them off so I can get some new tubes put in them tomorrow.

 

[milkman]

I had the same problem with the fuel line routing, it would vapor lock since the tank sat behind the engine in the hot air stream from the engine and the fuel line runs so close to the exhaust. If I remember correctly, the original fuel line ran from the tank up over the exhaust bracket. Somewhere on this forum, I have pictures of the bracket that I made and moved the tank to the front of the engine and was still able to use it with the hood. Wish I could remember where the thread is.

Edit:
OOps, looks like I was wrong on the fuel line routing. I found the link with the pics of the before and after moving the tank, last three pics in post #2, this link.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/2-wheeled-tractors/89060-post-pics-your-two-wheeler.html

 

[aczlan]

I had the same problem with the fuel line routing, it would vapor lock since the tank sat behind the engine in the hot air stream from the engine and the fuel line runs so close to the exhaust. If I remember correctly, the original fuel line ran from the tank up over the exhaust bracket. Somewhere on this forum, I have pictures of the bracket that I made and moved the tank to the front of the engine and was still able to use it with the hood. Wish I could remember where the thread is.

Edit:
OOps, looks like I was wrong on the fuel line routing. I found the link with the pics of the before and after moving the tank, last three pics in post #2, this link.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/2-wheeled-tractors/89060-post-pics-your-two-wheeler.html

Looks like pics are also at: https://picasaweb.google.com/hazelshusband/BCS#

Aaron Z

 

[oughtsix]

Thanks guys! I like the idea of turning the tank around! Seeing how it came stock with the fuel line looped around the exhaust I am a little disappointed in their design.

I am going back and forth on whether to keep the hood or not. My hood is cracked on the back most 2" of the hood. I am kind of thinking of sawing the back 2" off the hood to get rid of the cracked portion. This would also expose the tank fill hole if I keep the tank in it's stock position which would be a bonus. Currently I am thinking of selling the 715 next spring and it seems like having the hood attached would make it worth more.

 

[oughtsix]

I was able to get some time in the soil with the 715 this past weekend. At first I wasn't happy with the 715 at all as I couldn't get it to do anything except scratch the surface of the soil. I found the depth bar was set all the way down (minimal depth). When I went to adjust it the other holes in the bar were much smaller and wouldn't let me set the bar at any depth other than the scratch the surface setting. I wonder if this was a rental tiller and they did that for safety? Anyway, I just removed the bolt completely and ran the tiller at maximum depth. This allowed for much more satisfying operation!

The Acme 8hp engine wasn't bad... but it wasn't the Honda 13hp engine I am used to! The Acme is MUCH louder and I don't have a whole lot of adjustment of the RPM. I might not have the carb quite right yet but the one set screw on the carb doesn't seem to have much effect anywhere in the rpm range. The 8hp Acme brought back memories of my old 10hp Acme before I swapped in the 13hp Honda. The Acme seems to run MUCH hotter than the Honda, I seem to remember the 10hp Acme running quite hot too. The Acmes aren't bad engines... but they definitely are not Hondas! I will say I never ran out of power or stalled the engine with the 8hp Acme (Well I stalled it once when I picked up a big rock in the tines) but it did lug down much more than I am used to with the 13hp Honda and there is really no breaking ground at part throttle with the Acme like I can with the Honda.

The lack of the differential in the 715 was also annoying since I am used to the maneuverability of the locking differential on turns at the end of the row and when transporting... but not a deal breaker. The 3rd gear was way too fast for transporting and 2nd was much too slow on the 715. I miss the gear selection on my 735 although I never enjoyed changing gears on the 735. The lack of a kill switch on the 715 completely amazes me! But this would be an easy fix. I guess the proper procedure for shutting off the 715 is to turn the gasoline supply off and wait for the engine to starve? I guess this would keep the carburetor from gumming up.

I think I have decided to sell the 715 next spring and stay with my 735. I might buy a new BCS tiller box (And adapter) for my 735 as a field adjustable depth bar seems like it might be really handy. Is there any reason to consider a Grillo tiller box instead of the BCS?