Bought used BCS 853. Need suggestions and input.

[NGOG NRYTHRNG]

I just picked up a used BCS 853 with the electric start Honda engine, a quick hitch, a Del Morino 32 Brush Mower, and a BCS brand 31 Power Sweeper. The tractor has five hours on the meter, the sweeper looks unused, and the mower has two hours on it, and looks it. All for $3,000 cash.

On the bad side, it was originally purchased a two and a half years ago, used two hours, and then stored with fuel and with the clutch in the 'on' position since then. I went to look at it a week ago and the hour meter only had two hours. It would not start or even cough. Apparently they later flushed the fuel, changed the oil, put on a new battery and ran it for three hours to get it going, at which point I came back to test and then purchase it.

Use:
Off the bat it will be used to tackle brush and high weeds along a fence line, and in a tight group of trees. Both areas are too steep or tight to get a small FWD tractor into. Later a swivel plow, tiller, and probably other stuff. Let's not forget a 71" sickle bar for dam fun.

Issues:
1. Clearly I am going to drop the tank and soak the carb, etc.
2. I have heard that leaving the clutch closed can cause the surfaces to rust. Is there a way to tell from use, or is this a "crack it open" and see type thing or don't worry about it? After running the brush cutter around my backyard for around fifteen minutes, it seems to shift gears just fine. I do not have the hang of "double clutching" to get the mower spinning, but it ran well too (as long as the engine kept going).
1. The wheels are 5x10x20 and the engine protective cage is almost on the ground. Should I go to the 6.5x12x23 wheels?
2. Earth Tools own adjustable axles look perfect. Anyone have opinions and/or experience?
3. Debris screen seems prudent with my intended use.
4. Turning using the brakes is harder than expected with the mower out front. The brakes work great with no attachment, but with the mower they only suggest a turn, the rest comes from me. Is that normal? I may have gotten spoiled from my commercial walk behind mowers that can spin on a dime (and tear the turf...) despite weighing in over 600 pounds.
5. What other gadgets and checks should be on the short list?

Cheers!

 

[cmyoung2]

If the clutch works, don't worry about it. If it were frozen, it would not release. I usually don't even think about double clutching, just put it in gear and go. Sometimes in real heavy stuff I might have to back up a little and get a running start.If the Honda is running, let it run. Those are some of the lowest maintenance engines I've seen. Change the oil, if the carb gets clogged, simple to clean it out.(UTube) Larger tires will help ground clearance, and will increase ground speed, but it might not be worth the cost. Run what you have for a while and see how much issue getting hung up really is. (I have a small ATV winch to pull me out when I really get stuck-one more reason to have electric start) I have wheel extensions, a little time consuming to change, but I don't do it very often. Debris screen is cheap insurance. Might need to just tighten the brakes up some more, but also look at what you are trying to slide around. It does take muscle, especially with no wheel out front of that mower. Love my double rotary plow, tiller is a must, like it where mine can be shrunk from 30'? to 24"?. I like the flail mower, sickle bar works in tall stuff like hay. Potato plow for root crops. You probably don't have much use for a snow blower. Dozer blade for moving small piles of dirt or gravel. Chipper/shredder if you have a need. Finish mower(used mainly when I'm either not being lazy or the 20+year old rider is down). Brakes with the finish mower(wheels on front) will almost throw you off.
But far and away my most used implement is my power barrow. Each Tools sells a variety, I made one(copied some of Old Mech's work). Between moving firewood, at least daily during the winter, and moving mulch for the wife(which justified many more implements) I would keep the BCS just for that if all else had to go.

 

[jcraftenworth]

Treasure that 853! I believe the day is soon coming, when bcs will only have powersafe clutch system. And when that day comes, may be the day I order a grillo!

I suggest you get a grillo 26" tiller and get the extensions to take it to 30" till width. that is exactly what I have and it is super sweet! And frankly inexpensive compared to rotary plow and power harrow. Joel at earthtools tells me the grillo is the best and also the depth bar is fairly precise for controlling tilling depth, and that the depth control works better than the bcs. Only downside is that the neon green looks a little funky on the blue bcs machine

also I'm considering selling my bcs brand adjustable axle extensions not currently made, they're from the 90s, they give about 8" of extension combined, around 4" each wheel. they are on the fly adustable with a ratchet or ratcheting wrench, even easier than the earthtools. You just turn the nut and the go wider or narrower depending on which direction you turn. But the earthtools gives wider width options so they're great too.

 

[NGOG NRYTHRNG]

Thanks for the replies!

cmyoung2:
Are you saying you start a brush mower (or other heavy attachment) by just dropping the clutch? What throttle setting? I tried to bump it and killed the engine with the 32" brush mower at 2/3 and full throttle. It did not seem possible to start it without successfully double clutching. Here is Joel's explanation: Starting "high torque" implements on walking tractors with STANDARD clutches - YouTube
He does it very smoothly, and it was not easy for me to replicate, in fact I have failed so far.

There are so many great attachments but they pretty much cost the same as a stand-alone version (log splitter/water pump/generator/etc etc etc). Only one engine to maintain is nice, but it would be even nicer if they only cost ~75%. Of course at a certain point you have enough invested in attachments you might as well get them all, collect the whole set. As the British say, in for a penny in for a pound. There are at least a dozen I would use, and that adds up to folding money.

jcraftenworth:
I had no idea the Grillo tiller would fit a BCS. Very interesting. Looks like the way to go.

Question re: Honda GX390. Does it run out of gas with about a half inch of fuel still in the tank? It has an odd setup with the fuel filter in the tank so it is not something you would replace and watch like what I am familar with (Kohler & Kawasaki rule the lawncare industry). A flashlight shows the filter sticking up, out of the fuel. Spent a bunch of time wondering why my carb job failed, then added a few more cups of fuel and off she went. An inline filter between the carb and tank makes much more sense and I will probably add one just because but the in-tank one will still be there, mocking me.

 

[jcraftenworth]

I find that you can easily get *used* dedicated engine implements way cheaper than the price of a new bcs implement. Like wood chippers, from 100-300 bucks for a 8hp wood chipper on cragislist. same thing for pressure washers. Most times I think the bcs implement is better/more durable/faster than the craigslist "special", but it's hard to stomach the cost difference. BCS really shines when the size is right and there are no alternatives. Like flail mower, power harrow. You can't really get them anywhere else in this size, you have to go to a 4 wheel tractor, and the implements are usually competitive for either one or cost more on the 4 wheel tractor (because they are bigger).

I should cover myself by saying I have an older bcs with the spline pto that is identical to current grillo machines. It was cheaper since i didn't need adapter, I think the grillo is a bit cheaper than the BCS tillers for same size anyway, plus tills a bit better. However, talk to joel at earthtools to make sure you can use a grillo tiller with the newer bcs pto styles. If you can it's worth getting the grillo, joel has used them all over the decades and still favors the grillo tiller over bcs. That said, the bcs tiller is based on grillo design from when they were technology sharing, and no one is likely to be unhappy with a bcs or grillo tiller.

eta: Looks like it is possible. Costs about 60 for the adapter, but then the grillo tiller is a bit less expensive base price.

PTO ADAPTERS

Several adapters available to serve a variety of functions:



Adapter 1

Allows BCS implements with newer style (Post—1995) PTO shaft to attach to older BCS tractors (or, in some cases, certain Grillo Tractors).

Fits BCS splined tractor to 3-jaw implement
Item 922.90832
Price: $70 $66
Adapter 2

Allows BCS implements (or in some cases certain Grillo implements) with older-style splined (Pre-1995) PTO shaft to attach to new BCS tractors.

Fits BCS 3-jaw tractor to splined implement
Item 922.90831
Price: $70 $66

Both bcs and grillo units use a wedge-shaped “middlebuster” (BCS calls theirs a “Planar wedge”) which has 3 functions: 1) Depth control; 2) completely breaks out center strip of untilled soil under gearbox; 3) helps hold tractor in place in hard soils. BCS planar wedge adjusts to 4 depth positions; Grillo adjusts to 6 positions.

Grillo tillers also feature a “Helix” type spiral time pattern (with Bolo style tines) for a smoother tilling action.

 

[wstr75]

Since the engine now starts and runs, if it were mine, I'd mix Sea Foam® additive with the fuel and let it run in neutral for 15 minutes. Dropping the tank and getting into the carburetor could lead to unintended consequences. Running in neutral for extended time is far better than holding in the clutch as the release bearing for most manual transmission devices is intended for only intermittent use. Continuous use (the bearing is engaged, spinning and working against the clutch spring) puts a lot of heat into the bearing leading to premature failure.

I don't think the Grillo tiller will work with a modern era BCS. My recollection is the PTO rotation is the opposite direction, plus the Grillo is a splined PTO and your BCS 853 is a tapered 3 dog PTO.

Yes to adding a debris screen. I am amazed at how much particulate matter accumulates on my screen when mowing tall grass, particularly grass in the pollination stage.

I have the 6.5 x 12 x 23 wheels and found that setup to be well adapted to mowing and the rotary plow.

 

[jcraftenworth]

Since the engine now starts and runs, if it were mine, I'd mix Sea Foam® additive with the fuel and let it run in neutral for 15 minutes. Dropping the tank and getting into the carburetor could lead to unintended consequences. Running in neutral for extended time is far better than holding in the clutch as the release bearing for most manual transmission devices is intended for only intermittent use. Continuous use (the bearing is engaged, spinning and working against the clutch spring) puts a lot of heat into the bearing leading to premature failure.

I don't think the Grillo tiller will work with a modern era BCS. My recollection is the PTO rotation is the opposite direction, plus the Grillo is a splined PTO and your BCS 853 is a tapered 3 dog PTO.

Yes to adding a debris screen. I am amazed at how much particulate matter accumulates on my screen when mowing tall grass, particularly grass in the pollination stage.

I have the 6.5 x 12 x 23 wheels and found that setup to be well adapted to mowing and the rotary plow.

tines rotate forward, as intended by grillo, when using the grillo tiller with my bcs 737. it's necessary to consult with joel at earthtools before ordering of course, but from my research I think you can use the grillo tiller on a bcs with modern bcs pto. my bcs can mow moving forward and in reverse, which grillo tractors cannot do. I think my 737 runs pretty much like an 800 series, main difference is the different pto.

 

[NGOG NRYTHRNG]

Since the engine now starts and runs, if it were mine, I'd mix Sea Foamｮ additive with the fuel and let it run in neutral for 15 minutes. Dropping the tank and getting into the carburetor could lead to unintended consequences. Running in neutral for extended time is far better than holding in the clutch as the release bearing for most manual transmission devices is intended for only intermittent use. Continuous use (the bearing is engaged, spinning and working against the clutch spring) puts a lot of heat into the bearing leading to premature failure.

I went ahead and did a carb job on it, followed by the Sea Foam routine you suggested, once I realized that the tank was "empty" when it still had fuel. Unfortunately I left the clutch and operator presence control clipped down for the whole time. Where did you read that keeping the clutch depressed was bad, versus putting it in neutral and letting the clutch lever open? I am looking thru the manual now and not seeing anything. I really hate to think I may have fried something letting the engine idle with Sea Foam for around half an hour.

Repeat Question re: Honda GX390. Does it run out of gas with about a half inch of fuel still in the tank? It has an odd setup with the fuel filter in the tank so it is not something you would replace and watch like what I am familar with (Kohler & Kawasaki rule the lawncare industry). A flashlight shows the filter sticking up, out of the fuel. Spent a bunch of time wondering why my carb job failed, then added a few more cups of fuel and off she went. An inline filter between the carb and tank makes much more sense and I will probably add one just because but the in-tank one will still be there, mocking me.

 

[leonz]

I went ahead and did a carb job on it, followed by the Sea Foam routine you suggested, once I realized that the tank was "empty" when it still had fuel. Unfortunately I left the clutch and operator presence control clipped down for the whole time. Where did you read that keeping the clutch depressed was bad, versus putting it in neutral and letting the clutch lever open? I am looking thru the manual now and not seeing anything. I really hate to think I may have fried something letting the engine idle with Sea Foam for around half an hour.

Repeat Question re: Honda GX390. Does it run out of gas with about a half inch of fuel still in the tank? It has an odd setup with the fuel filter in the tank so it is not something you would replace and watch like what I am familar with (Kohler & Kawasaki rule the lawncare industry). A flashlight shows the filter sticking up, out of the fuel. Spent a bunch of time wondering why my carb job failed, then added a few more cups of fuel and off she went. An inline filter between the carb and tank makes much more sense and I will probably add one just because but the in-tank one will still be there, mocking me.

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Hello NGOG welcome to the forum,

The Honda fuel tank set up is not odd really, I wish Briggs & Stratton had this. The Honda engines will die with fuel in the tank as the tanks are lower than the inlet screen in the tank so no worries there.

My commercial firewood splitter which was a TW5-FC had a GX390 and did the same thing. the fuel inlet screen is a must have. If the fuel tank is missing the drop in fuel screen you need to purchase a new one for it as it saves you a lot of problems and prevents larger debris from entering the fuel tank.

The filter screen is not mocking you NGOG really it is there due to poorly filtered/not filtered petrol/ gasoline fuel world wide where the engines are used.


The drop in fuel tank screen is the first line of defense and the fuel line inlet screen is as fine or finer to help protect the
carburator.

If the fuel filler screen is gone you need to buy a new one. if you decide to invest in the larger clear plastic inline filter for you 2 wheel mule you should also invest in a pair of shut off valves to 1., shut off the tank supply of fuel and 2 drain the tank of fuel in the off season when the mule is on vacation and vacationing in the shed.

NO worries.

 

[rickyd79]

tines rotate forward, as intended by grillo, when using the grillo tiller with my bcs 737. it's necessary to consult with joel at earthtools before ordering of course, but from my research I think you can use the grillo tiller on a bcs with modern bcs pto. my bcs can mow moving forward and in reverse, which grillo tractors cannot do. I think my 737 runs pretty much like an 800 series, main difference is the different pto.

Absolutely you can run the Grillo tiller on BCS. There is no issue with PTO shaft rotating the opposite direction because no one "tills" in reverse. When moving forward in rear mount/tilling position both the BCS and Grillo PTO shafts rotate the same direction. But if you are going to take a post 1995 BCS (with current style tapered 3 jaw PTO shaft), you would need an adapter $65 to convert from the BCS tapered 3 jaw to the Grillo spline. In that scenario the only thing to consider is steering column/handle bar length because the $65 adapter will push the tiller 3" (roughly) closer to the end users feet. So make sure to stay safe. Some of the smaller BCS tractors have shorter steering column/handlebars and it would be unsafe. In the case of a pre 1995 BCS tractor that DOES NOT also have the flat 3 jaw PTO, but instead has spline (which is most pre 1995 BCS), you can bolt it right up. No adapter needed. Matter of fact when we sell used BCS we often times sell it with a new Grillo tiller. Its a good tiller and costs less than comparable BCS tiller. Any questions, let me know.