Stationary Balers

[mongrel]

Hey, all.

New to the forum. New to haying, in fact, and I'm going to stay that way at least until next year. My wife and I bought the 20-acre farm portion of an old farm in western Massachusetts this year (local fellah picked up the 80 acres of sugarbush though, sad to say) and there's about 10 acres of hay.

The place has been abandoned for a few years and a local dairy man has been haying as a favor to the estate and to keep it from all going to brush. Certainly appreciate that he's been doing it, of course, or else it would be a mess today. My family decided to just let the arrangement stand for this year, and I figure he's probably gotten used to the income from the hay for a while--I don't want to take that away first year I live there, you know?

But I have a few questions:

1) In terms of amounts is it true that an acre should give you about 200-250 small square bales first cutting, 150-175 second cutting, and 75-125 third cutting (weather permitting)? And does spreading lime and manure make a big difference?

2) Are any of you in arrangements where you cut the hay for someone and take a share? What's the most common percentage?

3) And this is the one that I'm most interested in: Do any of you operate a stationary square baler? For a couple of reasons, I'd be better off collecting the hay and then feeding it into a hopper of some kind. I've done some reading around the Web, and it seems like that used to be the old-fashioned way. Is anyone still doing it that way? Can a pull-behind be converted into a stationary baler you think?

Any and all opinions and suggestions appreciated!

 

[WTA]

I wouldn't recommend messing with a stationary baler unless you have a bunch of kids that really need something to do. I did that as a kid out of necessity and my back is paying for it now.

You would be much better off with a decent tractor and the newest baler you can get your hands on.

As for your first question, all that depends on what you plant and how you manage it.

We're doing almost 200 70 pound bales per acre on our alfalfa field and about 100-150 on the Bermuda field. It's the same every time for at least 5 cuttings per year here. Sometimes all 6 cuttings. Our rainfall amounts are my biggest up and down factor on the bale count. I irrigate to between 6 and 10 inches a month per acre regardless of rainfall. It's intensively managed, fertilized after every cutting, irrigated and weeds picked by hand mostly now. Those two fields are my living so I take very good care of them.

If it's just an old tired native grass field or something you have with compacted soil and poor nutrients in the ground then you'll be lucky to get 20 bales an acre. It really depends on what you have.

That's my bermuda field going on it's 3rd year in production now. My Alfalfa is in it's first year.

Doing something like this in West Texas exspecially takes a lot of time, effort and money.

 

[RickB]

Your yield estimates are WAY, WAY high; like by a factor of as much as 2 or 3. I have been making hay for most of my life and can drive to southern Berkshire county in less than a half hour. You may think you will be "better off" using a stationary baler, but I can't think of any way to make more work out of 10 acres of hay than what you are thinking of.

 

[zzvyb6]

What is the point of using a stationary baler? You will still need to move the cut hay to it. How do you imagine that will happen? The only possible savings is in the transport of the baled product to a barn. But, its not in the barn, so you wil have to move it. You could round bale the loose hay and then unroll it into a stationary baler on-demand. Then if you are thinking "paying customers", they could load it onto a transporter themselves as it comes out of the stationary baler.

As to your other questions: your estimates per acre ae too high, maybe by 50%. Depends on fertilizer and rain and baler compression settings. There may noy even be a 3rd cutting possible in your area. Shares are possible if you have a mutual situation: You need hay and he needs hay and has equipment. Those days may be gone. I won't do shares because the locals always have an excuse for not being ready to help. I cut their hay for them and deliver it to their barn for cash. If they don't like that deal, they do without. The days of $2.00 hay are now gone, too.

With this year's reduced acreage available for hay, weather, and fuel issues, a new ploy I have invoked is vehicle manufacturer. Come by in a Big 3 brand or go away. The Big 3 have paid for all our local health care, their banked profits have been the mortgage money for our homes, and their employees incomes were locally spent. No Asian companies can make these claims. Their employees are young and health care expenses are miniscule, they take their money back to Asian banks, and their employees incomes are spent on more Asian products. There is no longer local product loyalty around here. Too bad. Just like a radiator, which recycles its fluid, once the water blows out to other regions, there's no longer enough water to cool the manufacturing engine. All jobs around here are now service jobs at minimum or slightly higher wage. The great colleges and universities have a shortage of local applicants, classes are filling with foreign students and these students are graduating and returning to their homelands.

So a new twist to my marketting plan is: Has buying cheap Asian products cost you your job, your house, your medical insurance, or starved out your horses? When I suggest to them that they can buy hay from China via the internet, they just turn their heads in a puzzled look and spew out some goofy cool phrase of the day.

 

[mongrel]

"All six cuttings..." !!! WTA, us folk up here in New England can't even imagine what that would be like. Well, I'm sure that's pretty labor intensive, no matter what kind of equipment you're running.

RickB, thanks for your feedback on the per-acre yields. I guess I'll just have to wait and see what comes out of my 10 acres this year. Darn shame 1st cutting hasn't gotten done yet, what with all this rain--only a fraction of the guys around here were able to take advantage of the one decent week we had earlier this month. By the sound of it, whatever gets cut is only going to be good for cows and isn't going to fetch the price it should have.

zzvyb6, thanks for your info as well. The guy that's been haying the property for the last several years says he mostly uses corn silage for his cows, so I imagine he's been selling the hay, well, probably for 10 years now. Pretty sweet deal for him.

About the stationary square baler, though. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that I'm either somewhere in the neighborhood of half-crazy, OR that I have a really good idea about why I want to use a stationary square baler. (and my kids are a toddler and an infant, so it's not because I can get any work out of them) Can these machines even be found in decent shape anymore? What are the drawbacks if you had one in working condition? (besides that you have to get the cut hay to the baler). Were there ANY advantages?

 

[RickB]

None I can think of.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I grew up around a stationary baler. Other than simply doing it for nastalgia purposes, WHY would you want to do that to yourself? There's a simple reason why they're essentially extinct, and just about EVERYONE who bales, does so with a conventional pull-type "mobile" baler. Talk about "labor intensive"..... And dangerous.

Hayin' is difficult enough under the best of conditions. Why complicate it beyond what is absolutely neccisary?

Your yield expectations are more in line with a perfectly managed crop off of an extremely well fertilized field. Just talking about "grass" hay crop? Cut that in half (at best) This is my 38th season of putting up my own hay crop. I've managed to get a 4th cutting exactly TWO times in all those years. Usually 3, and on a few occasions, (last year most recently) just 2.

Doing hay on shares is just about a thing of the past. Used to be 50/50. In more recent times, 2/3rds-1/3rd. (big share to the baler) Now it's more or less strictly cash per hour, per bale, or per acre, with MOST everyone doing it per hour here. Locals who do custom baling (per bale) are getting AS MUCH as $3 per bale, cut, rake and bale, left in the field. (small squares)

Time was, I'd do anything a person could do with a tractor for the right price. Most recent thing crossed off my list of "tractorin' for cash" is baling. Equipment cost/maint. cost can be high. NEW equipment is INCREDABLY high. Cheap labor is non-existant. Fuel cost IS high. Twine cost is unreasonably high. And it seems 100 years of cheap hay has conditioned buyers that hay should STILL be cheap.

 

[mongrel]

Thanks, Farmwithjunk, for the words of wisdom.

There are still a decent number of folks in my immediate area who'll cut and bale for a 50/50 split, BUT that's probably because around here, there are so few big farms left. I've only got 21 acres, and there are folks who seem to think I've got a pretty big spread. And because I live in hill country, the number of kept-up fields is pretty small. But a lot of people have horses, and I guess a 50/50 split makes some financial sense when the price of hay is good.

And I'll tell you what--when I get the set-up I have in mind working (probably next year) I'll let you know why I wanted a stationary baler. You'll still think I'm crazy, but you'll nod your heads and say, "well sonofagun!"

In the meantime, if anyone can point me in the direction of names of models that might have been reliable (for what they were worth), I'd be much obliged. I may be able to find one + others for parts that I can get to work on this winter.

Thanks!

 

[WTA]

Try calling around some salvage yards in Pa. Or looking through some online newspapers there. There are still quite a few Amish using old stuff like that. I had to go out and work on them before for them. My dad is still using a horse drawn self powered new holland himself. He's not Amish but all his neighbors are.
I'm thinking about mounting an engine on my new baler just so I can save fuel in the big tractor. The horses need the exercise anyway.

I wonder how many horses it would take to pull my NH 116 haybine? It would take a pretty massive forcart I'll bet.

 

[flusher]

Thanks, Farmwithjunk, for the words of wisdom.

There are still a decent number of folks in my immediate area who'll cut and bale for a 50/50 split, BUT that's probably because around here, there are so few big farms left. I've only got 21 acres, and there are folks who seem to think I've got a pretty big spread. And because I live in hill country, the number of kept-up fields is pretty small. But a lot of people have horses, and I guess a 50/50 split makes some financial sense when the price of hay is good.

And I'll tell you what--when I get the set-up I have in mind working (probably next year) I'll let you know why I wanted a stationary baler. You'll still think I'm crazy, but you'll nod your heads and say, "well sonofagun!"

In the meantime, if anyone can point me in the direction of names of models that might have been reliable (for what they were worth), I'd be much obliged. I may be able to find one + others for parts that I can get to work on this winter.

Thanks!

Last place I saw a stationary baler was in the Heidrick Ag Museum in Woodland, CA.

Heidrick Ag History Center

If I were looking for one of those beasties, I'd email or call the guys at the museum. They know where all that old stuff is located.