trouble-Ford 532 baler

[Niji]

At the end of last season I got a junkyard Ford 532 square baler. It ran quite well, but with the occasional knotter foul-ups one would expect (maybe one bale in 30). It has an odd symptom I've been trying to sort out. During the knotting sequence, the needle rod at the end opposite the needles rides around on a wheel. That wheel where the rod attaches spins around and, as it returns to its rest position, pushes a spring loaded plate, passes it, which in turn snaps behind it so the rod is locked into position with the needles securely out of danger from the plunger. It's like a ratchet.

The trouble is that at least half the time at the end of the cycle, the rod at the wheel end doesn't catch behind the ratchet plate. Then, the needles and the rod smack around as I cut the PTO, and usually before I can get things stopped the rod has finally been smacked around enough that it has popped into position.

Before I even started this year, with baler empty, a spun the knotter sequence through by hand and found it was not catching. I replaced a spring, adjusted a bolt on the wheel the rod attaches to, and got it so that every time I spun it by hand it clicked perfectly in place. Now that I'm in the field, and running at speed with hay, it is about as bad as ever. Any insights into what I'm missing here?

I've luckily only broken a needle twice so far. But it is a very vulnerable situation for needles for sure.

The other trouble is that I've had trouble getting the knotters working right, now. There is no regularity to it--one knotter won't tie, then the other, then both, bill hooks won't clear, twine breaks here and there, twine twisted around stuff, and always presenting in a different way. I've hardly gotten two good bales strung together in two days, and I'm wondering if it is just related to all the crazy slapping around that happens with this needle rod wheel scenario? The needle rod trouble is so regular I can't even tell if the tying trouble would be present if the needle rod was behaving.

 

[zzvyb6]

I'd say there are 2 problems:

The billhook stripping problem is caused by the wiper arms not being close enough to the billhooks. In fact, the wiper arms should be rubbing the billhooks quite hard. This is accomplished by "modeling" them. This means bending them. Use 2 Crescent wrenches to do this easily. One to slide onto the wiper arm and the other to twist the first wrench. Otherwise you have to take out the wiper arm assembly and do it in stages.

The 2nd problem is not 100% clear to me. A picture would help. I'm looking at the NH parts diagram for the 532 and am guessing its related to the 011 section of the twine knotter base. The failure of the needle lift to lock is usually cause by insufficient clamping force on the needle brake. I don't see where a needle brake is on this machine. You might try putting a few bungy cords between the needle frame and the main case to remind them where home position is.

 

[Niji]

I'm attaching 2 photos. One (on the left) shows the needle rod/wheel in the proper resting position at about 5 o'clock. The other (right) shows where it is when incorrect, at 6 o'clock--not past the plate that is spring loaded and catches it.

I hope these help. I have been baling with the cover off so I can see easily when it misses a full rotation, although it is easy to hear it kicking about back there.

Thanks for advise on the wiper arms. I'll see if I can get in there and get that done per your suggestion. Also, I wondered if the knives can be sharpened as the twine cuts seems frayed and not clean to me. I wondered if that could contribute to the overall inefficiency of things?

Also, I wonder if you have a link for an online parts diagram?

Thanks!

 

[jimg]

What sort of condition are the knotter parts in esp the bill hooks? Is there any rust/pitting on the inside surfaces of the hooks? How about the wheels on the back side, does it have flat spots? If so Id replace the part (bill hook). Was having a similar problem last year b/c the hooks were in such poor condition.

IIRC isn't there a brake in the system you're describing? I know the knotters have one and it appears as though the parts you're talking about are run thru it. I wonder if theres enough momentum at speed to cause the problem and the brakes aren't grabbing.

 

[zzvyb6]

These pictures show that the needle brake is not tight enough. The needle brake is the 90 degree sector that is around the needle hinge shaft. There are two bolts with springs on them. These clamp 2 disk brake shoes to the disk, just like on cars. These bolts usually have lock nuts or are double nutted to keep them in place. In fact, the brake disk is still pretty rusty so its not even a player in the needle safety equation. Since this is a Deering knotter mechanism, its virtually identical to the early John Deere types. So, that being said, the John Deere operators manual advises to disconnect the needle lift link, set the needle frame to a vertical position, and adjust the brake shoe tension to deliver 17 - 22 lbs of rearward horizontal force. If you get it too tight, there's gonna be some bad noises, one from the machine and one from the operator.

I use the New Holland website. Chose North America agriculture, parts and type in you model number. All the part numbers and diagrams for standard and optional equipment are there for both Ford and New Holland machinery.

I'll bet this fixes the first issue. The billhook stripping is a wiper arm adjustment. If you remove the wiper arms, you can easily sharpen or replace the cutoff knives. New ones will come with bolts instead of rivets. Grind off the rivets, sharpen them and reinstall either new or sharpened parts using bolts.

BTW: looks like there is another spring in those pics that needs to be changed. Home Depot has them. Also check the plunger safety stop springs and free the channels in the lower bale case of chaff, crud, rust, mice, twine ends and other stuff. Then you won't have to weld the other needle. Good luck. Let's hear back on how all this works. (We expect paint to be applied, too. Its a pride thang....)

 

[Niji]

The good news is that bending the wiper on the right side did wonders for it. The other one was quite tight already. Then I sharpened both knives, and both knotters worked really well after that.

The bad news is that without tearing into the needle drive mechanism I tried to push on in the field and get the final 50 bales or so made and in the barn since family is coming in for the weekend and rain is forecast for Sunday--and the needle rod failed to make its full revolution several times and finally broke a needle at 6:30 pm on Friday going in to a holiday weekend. Not sure what my chances are to get my regular welder, or anyone else, to fix the needle in the morning. I've had my eye out for a spare all winter but never found one. I was looking just this week at the 14 and 24 Ts and wondered if my needles are interchangeable with them? Perhaps one of you know?

Anyway, I was able to access the exploded view diagram for this machine online. I was thinking from what zzvyb6 said that the wheel where the rod attaches would have something like brake shoes on the inside, but I'm not seeing that. I think I may just have to re-read your post carefully in the morning with a fresh head and cup of coffee, then match to the diagram and hopefully understand what you explained. I think if I can get that issue settled, this baler will really sing along.

Then I'll be ready to get the wire brushes and cans of paint! Gladly!

Thanks for all the help.

 

[zzvyb6]

What's the tip to clamp distance on a Ford needle? I have a 14T and a 24T needle. I can compare them to yours.

 

[Niji]

27 1/2 inches from tip to clamp as shown in the picture below--I wondered if you meant straight instead of along the arc so I snapped a photo to be sure we were on the same page.

I need to revisit the big issue. I am not seeing the "brake shoes" in the exploded view of the needle drive wheel. I did, however, notice your mention of bungee straps this morning (how did I miss that yesterday?) and since I have managed to get my needle welded this morning I plan to try and get the rest of that hay up and try strategic bungee-ing of the needle rod to get through the afternoon.

Then, I plan to tear into whatever I must to get this sorted out for real. I expect I need to take off the large castle nut on the end of the shaft and remove the needle rod and the wheel to get to what is behind there. It seems to be just a small spring and pawl, which I don't think can be malfunctioning. I'm not seeing the lock nuts you spoke of either. Perhaps they are behind in there?

 

[zzvyb6]

The 27 1/2 inches is about the same as my 14T needles, but the 24T needle is about 29 inches and the curvature is different.

The needle brake disk is that circular slotted flat plate not 8" from the bale counter in both pictures. There are 2 bolts showing with springs on then for brake tension. I don't recall seeing this in the parts diagram but what is important is that it is right there on your baler on the needle shaft. Since there is paint and rust on the brake disk, I would guess that the brake is not even engaged. The slotted guide should shine like a car's brake rotor.

 

[zzvyb6]

OK, so they don't call it a needle brake, its referred to as a needle retarder. There is brake facing material on it. Maybe yours is all gone. Glue some sandpaper on it if that's the case.