IH 46 Baler Manual Doesn't Show One Particular Knot Trouble

[RDSmith]

Hello. It appears that I'm just not sharp enough to figure out what's wrong and if I'm looking correctly the troubleshooting section doesn't show one particular knot problem. The outside twine ties correctly at least ninety nine percent of the time but the inside twine only ties correctly about 85% of the tiime.

The twine length after the knotting process seems to be correct but the needle twine looks as if there never was a loop and the twine on top of the bale has a loop that is pulled through a simple knot.

Any assistance would certainly be appreciated.

 

[flusher]

Hello. It appears that I'm just not sharp enough to figure out what's wrong and if I'm looking correctly the troubleshooting section doesn't show one particular knot problem. The outside twine ties correctly at least ninety nine percent of the time but the inside twine only ties coorectly about 85% of the tiime.

The twine length after the knotting process seems to be correct but the needle twine looks as if there never was a loop and the twine on top of the bale has a loop that is pulled through a simple knot.

Any assistance would certainly be appreciated.

Post pictures so we can figure this out.

 

[Barry Bowen]

First suggestions, MAKE SURE THE TWINE CUTTING KNIVES ARE SHARP!!!! If they are dull many many problems can arise. Sharpen those knives and see what a difference it makes before you go any further.

 

[zzvyb6]

Only 2 likely possibilities:

1) Tucker Fingers: The tucker fingers did not pick up needle twine or move it into tying position. The needles did not place twine properly into the twine disk notch.

2) Twine disk tension: Twine over the bale pulled out of the twine disk. It can be detected by a square cut end which has been flattened while it was in there. This twine will be shorter than the matching twine tied on the opposite side. If the twine end is frayed, then it probably sheared out of the disk. So, disk tension is either too loose or too tight. The hay dogs (which hold the hay flake in position when the plunger retracts) may be plugged up. That lets the hay snap back into the plunger chamber and this can pull the twine out of the disk.

Since you are having trouble with both sides, I'd go with #1 for starters because the finger motion is one mechanism. Check for worn linkage parts, a loose positioning bolt or a needle that's bent or moved. If the needle doesn't position the twine over the disk notch (with the help of the tucker finger, there's not going to be a loop formed. It takes two to tango. The single end does go thru the process so you get a simple knot.

 

[RDSmith]

Thank you for everyone's input so far. Maybe the correct answer has been already given but I don't understand it. Maybe the photos I hopefully have attached will shed more light for someone if the answer hasn't been given. I'm sure still in the dark yet.

IHC 46 :: IMG_8217a.jpg picture by osculate35 - Photobucket

Only once have I seen this. Every other time the needle twine has been pulled out like below. When the twine doesn't tie correctly there's always a loop pulled through a simple knot on top. I can't tell for sure if the twine knot ever had a loop in it. Some indication of it though once in a while.

IHC 46 :: IMG_0210a.jpg picture by osculate35 - Photobucket

Keep in mind I never have a problem with the outside twine being tied. It's the inside twine that keeps messing up say 15 to 20 plus percent of the time.

I did look at all the hay retainer springs and found that the bottom spring for the twine in question was missing and replaced it. Some help but not enough.

I did sharpen the twine knife but that didn't seem to help much either.

I looked at the tying procedure a couple of times while turning the flywheel by hand and everything looked to me to be exactly the same on both knotters except for the fact the one time it appeared that the bill hook jaw on the problem knotter didn't come down on the twine as quickly as it should have.

I sure hope someone can help some before I wear myself out from getting off and on the tractor so darn many times to repair the missed knot.

 

[Barry Bowen]

Two more things to look at and check after you checked tucker fingers. Knife still looks a little dull.:

1. How much up and down movement is there in the bill hook shaft. Normally these are shimmed on the top. Two ways to shim, remove gear and do properly with correct washer type shims, or find and e-clip to put on with out removing top gear. Second one may be better so nothing gets broken taking gear off.

2. Look at the needle adjustment as it comes over the twine disc. What is the space between the needle and the twine disc? It should be really really close, but with out touching. On this same track look at the pivot point for the needle lift are to make sure it is not super sloppy. This could also cause a problem allowing needle to change from proper adjustment during tying cycle.

Another possible idea, junk the sisal twine and go to plastic. This has solved many knotter problems for me.

 

[RDSmith]

I said the needle twine had no knot at all and that the twine over the bale was a loop through a simple knot. It appears though that most people would call this a slip knot. It turns out that the problem was caused by one or two things being worn out. First of all the bill hook pinion was worn enough to put the bill hook slightly out of position. Second the bill hook jaw pivot pin or the jaw itself was worn enough (not always centered in the bill hook) that it didn't always stop down on the twine correctly... letting the needle twine pull loose. I finally saw this after about eight tries at turning the flywheel by hand through the knotting process. The first seven seemed okay. I also adjusted the disk timing which was off some because of pinion wear.
Thanks again for all the suggestions.

R.Smith