FarmTrac Troubles

[redneckford]

OK!! I will not post anything else about FarmTrac or Textron. Thanks for your time?

[taxpayer]

Originally Posted by longtrman

Thanks Case and SESS for your posts but please don't be hurt. The post of mine that started this was just meant to give heart to the people that have Farmtrac tractors and don't know where to get parts. Everybody please be glad for the dealers who are going to England on their own nickle in order to try to set up a parts supply line for you. They are very good and generous people and very talented managers. Something good should come out of it. The other posters have had their feelings hurt from this Farmtrac mess and with good reason. They have a right to know however that there are about 67 of 285 ex-Farmtrac dealers actively trying every avenue to help the past and future customers of their dealerships and past Farmtrac customers. Notice I did not say future Farmtrac customers because Farmtrac,NA is history. If someone buys the Tarboro property that was occupied by Farmtrac,NA it won't be Farmtrac. All the buyer will get will be physical assets. You don't have to worry that we are trying to restart Farmtrac--it will never happen. But we have to get parts and if possible service for the tractors. We have to try to sell the remaining blue tractors. Remember the blue tractors did not do anything to you. Tractors don't cheat you --however unscrupuluos companies do . But that company is gone--let's move on. Please do not try to punish the blue tractors. Please do not try to punish the dealers who are trying to help you. We have to do what we can for ouselves also. You think it is selfish for us to try to keep from losing a life time of work and our business property and probably our homes also--after all your tractor has lost half of it's value. Really think about it. We are possible going to lose everything we worked for for our lifetime and yet we still try to help you. And all you do is complain when I try to tell you have heart we are working on getting the parts flowing again. We would like to be able to report that Escorts has decided to be a good world citizen and live up to its responibilities as a manufacturer of a tractor---It ain't a gonna happen. They cheated you and they cheated the dealers much much more. You say why don't the dealers just declare bankruptcy and walk away form it all. The dealers all--including green and yellow, red, orange--had to sign a personal guarantee guaranteeing that if their companies didn't have the money to pay the floor plan company that they would--in other words they lose everything.
If someone does buy the former Farmtrac property don't try to punish them for what Farmtrac and Escorts did. If it is the Korean company they are only trying to help the people who purchased Korean tractors from Farmtrac. It won't be Farmtrac. If they purchase all assets then they may have blue tractors to sell as well as selling their new production. Don't punish the tractors--they are iron and don't feel a thing.
People keep saying that the dealers should have been upfront about it and told the tractor owners before things got bad. Honestly we heard about Farmtracs problems on the TractorByNet.com site. Think about the hourly paid workers at Tarboro--they went on working for five weeks without being told the money to pay their salaries won't be coming from India. If they worked in the plant for five weeks without knowing Farmtrac was bancrupt how is a dealer 200 to 1500 miles away supposed to know. Everybody please don't be hurt and try to calm down and work together for a good solution that benefits all. Thank you.

Well Spoken Longtrman,I would like to point that the dealers formed a private forum to discuss issues without risking their legal status.some of us came back here so everyone concerned would know what was going on,we understand the customer's concerns and welcome all others who have supported us.this forum is the only way to get info to some.-----taxpayer

[taxpayer]

Originally Posted by redneckford

OK!! I will not post anything else about FarmTrac or Textron. Thanks for your time?

Redneckford, your support and wisdom have been invaluable to the dealers and for that you have our Thanks. I don't think you were the subject of the last few posts.please continue to post,your past experiences and knowledge and support are welcomed.-----taxpayer

[SESS]

Longtrman-good message to us all. The Farmtrac dealers (as you yourself know!) are just feeling the heat from all directions. No one likes to talk about money or the lack of it! No one likes bill collectors! No one likes unhappy customers! And we dealers are getting that from every direction. Can't go to the grocery store without seeing a customer and them ask about Farmtrac. Its embarassing and we didn't have anything to do with it! If it wasnt for tractorbynet, alot of us would not have known about the Farmtrac mess when we did!! The dealers want all this to work out and are trying our darnedest to make things happen. We can buy parts from someplace, we can buy more tractors, but we cannot buy our good reputation that is at stack here! Come REDNECKFORD, you feel our pain-don't leave us now!

[longtrman]

Originally Posted by redneckford

OK!! I will not post anything else about FarmTrac or Textron. Thanks for your time?

Not you red neck! My posts aren't about anyone in particular but decidedly not about you. We always value your input. Thanks, Longtrman

[NewToy]

Originally Posted by longtrman

Ethnicity really doesn't have a part to play. My point was Escorts had a huge control over FARMTRAC,NA. I don't think that FARMTRAc would have gone to India to recruit management "talent" on their own. It shows me that Escorts called the shots and should have to be responsible for loosing the game. Is that not correct?

When you say the front office is "all Indians" that brings ethnicity into play. You played the "race card". As far as correct, I dunno. The whole thing is a bad deal. To prevail in a lawsuit you will have to prove misconduct and intent to defraud. Your thinking where they recruited their management team and who should be responsible will not meet the burden of proof to win a decision.
John

[blueliner]

Oh Curly-tailed one,

Nothing like gaining the ire of a national dealer network more than 280 strong, eh? It is an unenviable position.

I've been fortunate enough to work hand-in-hand with these fine folks and dutiful Americans.

Originally Posted by swines

What EXACTLY is "the government" supposed to do?

Their job as legislators: adequately represent their constituents, the people.

Originally Posted by swines

If Escorts did something illegal ... file a legal action in court yourself. How about YOU do something to help yourself instead of just complaining about the situation and wanting somebody else to take care of it for you?

Far from it! These are hard working folks who take pride in advocating for themselves -- and their customers -- under adverse conditions.

Originally Posted by swines

Why do people think "the government" should take care of them whenever life gets inconvenient?

Your threshold question does not apply to the Farmtrac retailers. See above.

If these guys and girls were your neighbors, you'd shake their hand. If they were the dealer you bought your tractor from, you'd hug them and root for them.

Kennedy said "the farmer is the only person who sells at wholesale price and and pays the freight both ways."

Remember this: If they don't produce food and sell the implements to grow it, you and I don't eat.

I'm a fan of dinnertime. You?
Its simple: Root for Farmtrac retailers!

Regards,
--b

[longtrman]

Originally Posted by NewToy

When you say the front office is "all Indians" that brings ethnicity into play. You played the "race card". As far as correct, I dunno. The whole thing is a bad deal. To prevail in a lawsuit you will have to prove misconduct and intent to defraud. Your thinking where they recruited their management team and who should be responsible will not meet the burden of proof to win a decision.
John

My discussion was never meant to be proof of wrong doing. It was only meant to show if wrong doing is suspected strongly enough to warrant court action that even though people have told me you can't sue across national borders there may be a way. If Farmtrac is truly an independent subsidiary there is probably no hope of a suit reaching the court.
Although not proof in court, I personally believe that Escorts put the management in Farmtrac. Since I won't be the one creating the lawsuit I'll leave it to the professionals to prove that Farmtrac didn't have power to run day to day business at Tarboro without permission from Escorts. Personally I believe that Farmtrac was more agent than subsidiary. In a lawsuit reported on the internet Escorts lost a suit brought by poor Indian farmers who had given money to Escorts through Indian dealers. Escorts did not provide the tractors even though it received the money for the tractors. The courts held that the Indian dealers were agents and that Escorts had to pay the farmers. American dealers are not agents--they operate independent businesses and do not collect money in the name of their franchise manufacturer. Your discussion helps get the idea out to companies like LS, Textron, UTB and others that are owed enough money that a lawsuit becomes feasible. A lawsuit at the dealer level is probably not for enough money to take the risk of loss. As I said before the ethnicity of the management is not a factor other than something to cause a "Dick Tracy" type to look at who actually called the shots at Farmtrac. Was it Farmtrac,NA or Escorts,LTD?

[taxpayer]

The following article is dated sept 6,2005. I believe this was about the time Farmtrac started showing signs of trouble, according to court docs. have go back and check that. coincidence????
ESCORTS LIMITED: Revamps Board After Official Departures
--------------------------------------------------------
Troubled tractor maker Escorts Limited has reconstituted its
board Thursday last week, a day after the mass resignation of
all its directors, except Rajan Nanda, The Times of India
reports.

Mr. Nanda's son Nichil Nanda, who also stepped down Wednesday
last week, has been appointed chief operating officer (COO) of
the Company.

Four new directors, former UTI chairman SA Dave, former union
ministers MGK Menon, PS Pritam and SC Bhargava have joined as
directors on board. Mr. Dave and Mr. Menon had resigned from
board on August 31 and August 29 respectively.

According to a source, the company has defaulted on repayment of
debentures worth INR50 crore to ICICI Bank. If the directors
continue to be on board for one year during the course of
default, they can not continue on board of other companies. To
avoid this, the source said they resigned from the board of
Escorts.

Last year, Escorts announced that it would raise INR800 crore
from abroad. The money was supposed to come by August this year.
But a company source said the infusion of the fresh capital has
been delayed, which resulted into the default.

Escorts is also facing problem of working capital as the banks
have stopped lending it fresh money. The source said the company
would require at least INR500 crore in the next six months.

Rajan Nanda said the company was in the final stage of
negotiations for financial restructuring, which will ensure
injection of funds and replacement of high cost debt.
Escorts posted a net loss of INR57.3 crore in the quarter ending
June.

About Escorts Limited-----------Taxpayer

[SESS]

For all the "not even zero" customers, I post this website again for you ALL to file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission. Here is the address to click on: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

Please remember that VOLUME of complaints make a difference! Take the time and file your complaint against Farmtrac North America.

Every customer that is out warranty on their tractor should also file a complaint.