Decoding FIAT frame / chassis numbers...

[mungus]

Are there any FIAT / Heston gurus here?

I am restoring a late 1970's FIAT 780 2WD tractor. :thumbsup:
Its a great tractor to use, it just needed some TLC.

I am trying to find out what year it is. It was never registered so has no papers.
I have decoded the engine numbers but cannot find out what codes are used for the year of manufacture? The FIAT agent doesn't know how to either...

Its got the bigger front wheels and the lower mounted headlights, so I know its one of the earlier ones (1976-79?), but exactly what year I don't know...

Any FIAT grand masters here who can help? Thanks...

 

[puddingman]

if its the one in your profile pic its a early one, flatmates old man has one identical

:thumbsup:

good ole bus, iveco motor 8045 motor

sparex here in NZ used to carry a lot of parts for them, now bareco does,

 

[mungus]

Nope thats not my one. If you look closely thats a FIAT brochure photo. Once I've finished the rebuild I'll post a before and after thread that'll show mine off well. :thumbsup:

Per my first post I already figured out its an early one, but just what year?

There are still some working here in Australia, plus quite a few rusted out ones exist with wreckers. Predictably clustered around areas where there was once a FIAT dealer. There was once a big FIAT dealer SW of Melbourne in Werribee, (Italian market gardening area), and thats where I bought it last year... (Australian FIAT distributor's newsprint advertisement from the 1970's is attached below)

There are also quite a few in coastal NSW and northern coastal QLD. But thats about it... There are a couple of decent country tractor shops in NSW and QLD, who still carry parts, and who probably have some knowledge from back in the day. However most of the dealers have long since migrated to New Holland and have no interest in 30 year old stuff. Funnily enough I did have to call NZ to source some parts recently; Some OEM 40 kg front counterweights, and a LH King Pin (from Ruakura Motors in Hamilton). SPAREX still carries some parts, and as you say, so does BARECO (I prefer SPAREX). However many OEM parts are still available ex FIAT dealers (GW Tractors here in OZ), and thats what I've done whenever possible. (My local Bareco / Sparex dealer was not that great). Some new body parts also being made for some "new" versions of older FIATs made in Turkey. This USA business also has some bits, but so far I have been able to get everything much closer to home; Your Fiat-built Tractor Parts Source!

Its funny that the decode data for the engine numbers is readily available (PDF atached), but decodes for the frame numbers are not.
I've even got the OEM owner's manual, parts manual and 2 workshop manuals (1976 & 1979). But the year of manufacture decodes are nowhere to be found! :smiley_aafz:

I know by the fitting of a retaining ring on the hand brake gear that its not from the very first batch. However the big front wheels (18") and lower headlight position peg it as pre 1980. Its not like I NEED to know, but I want to know as its basic information for my tractor, and one of the first questions people ask...

Heres hoping someone really in the know can spill the beans on how to decode the frame number.

 

[puddingman]

good to see you found my mates site in canada lol, he come to me about 8 years ago, put a link on my page, back then he was starting out, delivering mail in the morning, pedalling parts in the afternoon

and you found a pic on my site Puddingsworld - Home Page

age of fiats, and SAME's is always been something hit and miss for me, finding info has been a challenge, sometimes there production lives were so long, and i am never able to do everything, and of course italian machinery doesn't have the same demand in the vintage world as MF and ford, so production info is always a little more scarce.

NH dealers are suppose to be able to help us in the southern hemisphere, but often the old hands knowledge disapears out the do

you are right a variation of the 88 series is still made for the turkish market, and that same factory builds the TDD and JX we see in the southern hemisphere, yet the farmall (american JX), JXU, JXC, TLA, TNF, T4, T5, all come off the line at jesu italy

the problem with fiat and rust was there manufacturing follow automotive standards of folding steel against itself to give strength and a smooth edge, so it often rusted from the inside out, and the lack of good metal treatment, zinc etc



as for the park brake prob, flatmate did his last year, said it was easy lol.....i smell a rat

 

[mungus]

Yes indeed, the rusty bodywork has been half the job...

Mainly the rear guards (the only doubled panels), which are structural (ROPS mounts). The rest of the bodywork is all single skin. No anti rust treatment by the looks of it. Like Italian cars of the day (I had an 1975 Alfasud years back, and that rusted to buggery from the inside out...). Still the only new panel bought for my 780 has been the bonnet, simply cheaper than fixing and painting the old one. The rest has been fixable, albeit the platform and guards needed quite a bit of new metal put in...

There is one New Holland agent here in VIC who still has some idea (Godings). But they really don't carry parts. Only GW Tractors carry much. However the only consumable part I needed that I couldn't source as OEM was a LH King Pin, only because mine still has the original sliders and king pins, that were superseded by a larger version. (Some original 38mm spec housings broke above the lower bush, albeit possibly assisted by inappropriate FEL loads and speed over rough ground etc).

Who knows, maybe one day I will track down the information for decoding its age...

Yes I saw your website many months ago, however I hadn't noticed you were in NZ, or ex Lincoln (I'm ex Massey BTW).
However unlike you Pud I am no longer working in agriculture, although we are hobby farming here in OZ and still have the family dairy farm in the Waikato (sharemilked).

As for the parking brake job, I can see that the very first 780's that lacked the retaining ring would be a doddle to do. I will have another look, as I was wondering if somehow one can push the gear forward a bit and wiggle that ring back over the keyway far enough to let the disc halves in. I guess I'll find out!

Thanks for the posts.

 

[D7E]

They were good old hosses but suffered with tin rot badly . Had a 80/90 with very little front end tin left at all wonderful engines !

 

[mungus]

True enough, in fact thats largely why I bought it. I was really looking for a MF165 or 175 etc as MF is big around here, but this FIAT 780 appeared at the right price so I went and had a look. The engine was sweet, started first pop, no smoke or rattles and pulled like a school boy...

With new rear tyres and it being complete I thought it was worth the time to sweeten her up. It feels more modern to me than a MF165/175 anyways. The engine is much quieter and smoother than those 1970's Perkins diesels IMHO. So far everyone seems to have liked them, just the tin rot that comes up as the only real negative. My only real problems have been undoing the previous owners "maintenance".

Mine has far less rust than many FIATs I've seen, but the rear guards and deck still needed some new metal around the bottom edges. The front end was pretty good rust wise. I am just waiting for one rear wheel to come back from blasting then it will start going back together.

 

[D7E]

True enough, in fact thats largely why I bought it. I was really looking for a MF165 or 175 etc as MF is big around here, but this FIAT 780 appeared at the right price so I went and had a look. The engine was sweet, started first pop, no smoke or rattles and pulled like a school boy...

With new rear tyres and it being complete I thought it was worth the time to sweeten her up. It feels more modern to me than a MF165/175 anyways. The engine is much quieter and smoother than those 1970's Perkins diesels IMHO. So far everyone seems to have liked them, just the tin rot that comes up as the only real negative. My only real problems have been undoing the previous owners "maintenance".

Mine has far less rust than many FIATs I've seen, but the rear guards and deck still needed some new metal around the bottom edges. The front end was pretty good rust wise. I am just waiting for one rear wheel to come back from blasting then it will start going back together.

Had a few over the years , 80/90..90/90...110/90 turbo...180/90 and a winner100 turbo...noted tin rot was problem with them all and gear change maybe not the best with the "90's" but reliable to the last . For what they are worth a better option than deeres etc of equivalent age i think , i would buy another if they were more common here ! have fun with it

 

[topbuilder]

I worked at a facility that received units from Italy in containers and did the final assembly/make ready and then shipped them to dealers across the country. This was during the change from Hesston to Fiat. We were already into the 56 series, 66 series and 90 series from 80-90 to 190-90. I don't remember seeing any year/serial # charts. Even if there were such an animal it seems like parts and service changes were tied to the serial number rather than the year model. I could be wrong but I think the year model allot of times was the year it was purchased in...
The Hesston/Fiat people I worked with were among the best people I have ever worked with. Cost was not an issue. They wanted it right.
If you have a tractor from this era, pretty good chance it came through our facility. I'll have to dig around and see if I can come up with some interesting photos to post.

 

[mungus]

Thanks for the info.

I am in Australia so possibly mine came straight from Italy.
I am hopeful someone will know roughly what years tie to what range of frame numbers...