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  1. #1
    Platinum Member
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    Jan 2002
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    856
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    South West Pa/Greene county
    Tractor
    Long/Landtrac360DTC

    Default PTO Hydraulic Pump

    Hello all,
    I have a backhoe on my tractor, operating with the tractor hydraulics. I have been told I could get better performance with a PTO pump. Anyone have any experience operating with/without a PTO pump on the backhoe ?

    Ed King

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    122
    Location
    Salem New Hampshire
    Tractor
    Kubota B1700 TLB

    Default Re: PTO Hydraulic Pump

    Ed
    I have nothing to compare to because this is the only BH I have. kubota 4672 BH on a Kubota b1700. I like the idea of having the BH completly separate from the tractor. This was to my advantage when I split one hydraulic line on the hoe. Bye the time I saw the fluid, about 3 gallons was on the ground, if it were using tractor hydraulics I might have been stuck in the woods. Another advantage is that the BH could be used on any other tractor without changing the other tractors hydraulics.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Posts
    457
    Location
    New York - Upstate
    Tractor
    Kubota 2710

    Default Re: PTO Hydraulic Pump

    Ed,

    Rgarding erformance, if your backhoe has a stated GPM requirement, and your tractor hydraulics (after you take into account reduced flow after the 3ph, power beyond, valve body restrictions, etc), then your performance should meet or exceed the specs of the hoe.

    If your GPM is less than the specs on the hoe, the speed (performance) of cyclinder travel will be slower, but no less powerful (breakout forces), given that your PSI is adequate. In this instance, adding the PTO pump will mprove speed, but only if the PTO pump meets or exceed the GPM requirement of the hoe.

    One possibility is that you increase the speed of the cylinders to the point that you cannot effectively control the hoe (swing past your intended object, jerking up from the ground when the rock frees up, sending a shower of dirt all around). This can really be an adverse factor on performance, though you could put restrictors in the valves to slow the fluid down (back to a lower GPM, eliminating the "benefit" of the PTO pump).

    My advice is, if the hoe is working reasonably well, "improving" it may not actually be better. If the hoe is oversized for the hydraulic pump, it may be oversized for the tractor as well, but an external pump could generate the flow you need. The real benefit of an external pump is to separate the flow of fluid from the tractor, either to prevent getting stranded, or more importantly, to eliminate the possibility of contaminating the tractor hydraluics when dirt from the hole is sucked into the ruptured line. We all know the worst enemy of long life to hydraulics is dirt!!

  4. #4
    Veteran Member hayden's Avatar
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    Sep 2000
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    1,709
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    MA/VT
    Tractor
    Kubota L5740 cab + FEL, Cat D5G dozer, Kubota KX121 excavtor

    Default Re: PTO Hydraulic Pump

    Also keep in mind that you will need to add a fluid tank and filter in addition to the pump.

    Unless you need more fluid flow, which translates into more BH speed (not power), then I'd stick with the hydraulics as they are.

  5. #5
    Platinum Member
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    Long/Landtrac360DTC

    Default Re: PTO Hydraulic Pump

    After reading the responses, I'm wondering if the pressure isn't low on my hydraulics. The speed of the hoe is fine, it just seems to lack a little in the power department. I think I'll check with my dealer and see if they can check the pressure out of my rear outputs.

    Thanks for all the replies.

    Ed King

  6. #6
    Platinum Member
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    Jan 2002
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    South West Pa/Greene county
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    Long/Landtrac360DTC

    Default Re: PTO Hydraulic Pump

    Well, I went to the dealer today and had them check the pressure and flow. 2200 psi and 12 gpm at 2700 rpms. I guess I was just expecting a little more power than the backhoe would provide. The only other hoe I've operated was a JD TLB. I guess you don't get that kind of performance of a tractor mounted unit.

    Ed King

  7. #7
    Veteran Member hayden's Avatar
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    MA/VT
    Tractor
    Kubota L5740 cab + FEL, Cat D5G dozer, Kubota KX121 excavtor

    Default Re: PTO Hydraulic Pump

    The power is all based on PSI, cyinder size, and the geometry of the hoe. Although there is no hard correlation between 3PH mounts and hoe power, smaller hoes do tend to be lower power, and 3PH hoes tend to be on the small to medium size.

    Do you have any specs on your hoe? It's not a brand I'm familiar with. If you have numbers, we could compare with some of the bigger brand 3PH hoes to see if there is a noticable difference.

  8. #8
    Platinum Member
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    Jan 2002
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    South West Pa/Greene county
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    Long/Landtrac360DTC

    Default Re: PTO Hydraulic Pump

    The backhoe is a Long 4008, the specs are attached.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9
    Veteran Member hayden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
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    1,709
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    MA/VT
    Tractor
    Kubota L5740 cab + FEL, Cat D5G dozer, Kubota KX121 excavtor

    Default Re: PTO Hydraulic Pump

    It's digging depth is the same as my kubota 4690 and the same as a woods 7500. The digging force is also essentially the same.

  10. #10
    Platinum Member
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    Long/Landtrac360DTC

    Default Re: PTO Hydraulic Pump

    Can you lift the back of the tractor up with it or push/pull the tractor back and foward ? It seems I have the most power with the bucket curl. The boom up and down seem a little weak to me. It also seems I can move the tractor sideways easier than front to back. I guess thats just the nature of the beast.
    BTW, my tractor (Long Agribusiness Landtrac 360) weighs in at about 5000 lbs with loader, backhoe, and loaded tires.

    Thanks for the feedback,

    Ed King

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