air19 said:
Island,
I have read many of your grapple comments. Your latest replies on this thread bring up a couple more questions before I make my decision.
I'm about to trade my old Kubota M5030DT in for a new Kubota M7040. I want a grapple to move a lot of logs around and push back the edge of my fields where I need to grub out rocks, stumps. Harder work than just brush pile maintenance.
I wanted to ask you about your latest comment about 1 top arm vs. 2, where you argue that 1 is always best. For all my log loading work, I thought 2 would be much better to keep the log steady, with less tendency to tip.
I agree with all your comments about light weight, but with all my log moving, I am looking for a manufacturer who will beef up the sides where I expect most of the log tilting stress will occur. Would you still recommend the lighter grapples for a tractor as big as an M7040 given my hard use?
I'm looking at three options:
1. WR Long's new RBG2 60" with two arms, weighing only 365 lbs. Seems like a great combo, but maybe too light duty for my tractor.
2. Wildcat's 60" root grapple at 635 lbs.
3. A modified Millonzi 60" LD with beefed up sides increasing the weight to about 500 lbs.
Thoughts?
I understand that it seems logical that two arms would hold a log more securely than one. However, remember that you are not really holding the log with just the upper arms but rather by pressing the log into the bottom of the grapple. A one arm grapple therefore has essentially three points (top, left and right) and three points is pretty good for picking stuff up and holding it securely. Regardless of which style grapple you get you will always want to grasp a log or group of logs so that they are balanced left and right anyway. Otherwise your tractor will be unstable and you'll put undue stress on the FEL. If the load is balanced, you are really not needing that much force to hold the load in place. I have simply never had an issue getting adequate purchase on a log or tree.
As I don't find the lack of two arms a disadvantage, it is fair to point out the advantages of one arm. As I've noted before, it allows you to "surgically" grasp something right in front of you and automatically have the load balanced. If you grab something with one or the other of the two grapple arrangement you need to reposition if the load is heavy. One example is when you put the bottom tines under a bush that you want to pull out. With one upper jaw you leave the jaw open, stick the grapple under the bush by driving forwards with the lower tines pointed just a bit down and then curl to pop the bush out. Once it comes up you simply close the grapple and you drive away to the burn pile. See photos. With a two jaw grapple you'd do the same first steps but then you'd have to reposition the load, probably even working around to the side of the bush in order to get the root ball under one grapple arm and the body of the bush under the other. More complicated but if you don't do that then you've got an asymmetric load.
I suspect your loader is about the same capacity as my new loader. I've stuck the grapple under things that are heavy enough that I've lifted my rear wheels off the ground (4000lb tractor and 600lb mower). Did not bother the grapple at all. I don't think logs are really much of a challenge for grapples. Construction debris might be but brush and logs just don't seem to fare well when they challenge even 3/8inch steel. I haven't had any trouble lifting pretty big rocks or slabs of concrete either. The main thing that will damage a grapple is an asymmetric load or a sideways load. The point I keep raising is that I think having two upper arms makes it much more likely that you'd have an asymmetric load.
Regarding the grapples you listed: I've always liked the WRLong clamshell. It's cute and for brush alone would be the best choice. For using the grapple as a sawhorse to hold trees while you trim or cut them up it would also be nice as it closes more tightly than a traditional grapple. For lumpy things I think it would be fine but it looses it's advantage over a single arm traditional grapple. It is not as effective at being able to use the upper arm "surgically" because the upper arm is too wide to do that except by using one end which gets you back to the asymmetric load/torque issue again. I find that being able to come over the top of an object and use the upper arm to dig it out or just clamp down right in the middle is very useful so I'd miss that with the clamshell type. Wish I had one of each.
I don't know the Wildcat but based on the weight I'd say that it is too heavy or at least heavier than optimal for a CUT. If you are slamming the thing blindly into piles of construction debris with a big skidsteer or , worse you have an hourly employee who is doing that for you, then maybe such an overbuilt grapple makes sense. Lifting logs and tearing out brush or moving rocks just isn't that tough on a decent grapple so I wouldn't advise spending the extra money.
I've never seen the 60" Millonzi but I believe it has exactly the same construction as the 48" I have except for the two upper jaws. Enough written about that issue already.
I have over a year's experience and probably 70hrs work with my 48 on a smaller tractor and now about 5 hours or so with it on the DK40se. If I were to buy another right now I'd just get another 48" "light duty" from Millonzi. I just haven't seen anything that comes close in bang for the buck and I haven't ever felt there was some other grapple feature or type that would do the all around work I do any better. I'm not sure I'd even want to get it customized by beefing it up as that would make it heavier. Maybe, maybe using 1/2 inch but the weight penalty would probably deter me. I don't see the advantage of T1 steel though it is clearly stronger because it limits your ability to make repairs by heating and bending. Really, I'd just get another stock 48 LD and save the rest of the money for a new toy.
