Front-End Loader Hydraulic PHD on FEL or Backhoe?

[leoniru]

I'm looking to install a hydraulic PHD on my Kubota L48, soooo I trekked on down to my closest "bota dealer who also was the closest McMillen retailer. Here is what I was told:
1. McMillen drive unit [same price for either X975 (6-15 GPM unit) or X1475
(10-25 GPM unit)] is $2005.00 for quick-attach FEL.
2. McMillen 12" x 36" auger bit for moderate-to-hard soil is $422.00
3. Cost to plumb FEL for setup using Kubota part # TL1705 auxilliary hydraulic
valve kit $412.00.
4. Shipping from McMillen around $350.00 for either setup.
5. McMillen drive unit for backhoe attachment $1475.00.
6. McMillen backhoe mount kit $205.00.
7. Cost for kit to plumb backhoe using Kubota part # BTB402A auxilliary valve
kit $1648.00.
All prices are MSRP.
I have not included labor costs to install plumbing as I would tackle this myself.
The dealer did not even hint at working up a price other than full MRSP ---- does this seem to be standard attachment buying policy?

Seems almost a no-brainer to me as the total to do the FEL setup is about $1,200.00 less than to put it on the 'hoe, and as I can NOT easily envision buying any other hydraulic attachments that I'd put on the 'hoe, but CAN think of a few for the FEL down the road just further supports my going the FEL route.
Some questions though.
1. Would hydraulic power be about the same for each setup?
2. Am I missing any obvious advantages/disadvantages of either setup over the other?

Anyone have experience with BOTH avenues of doing this?

Thanx,
leoniru

 

[3RRL]

Well, if I had both set ups, I would be a PHD junkie.
Actually I don't have either but I do have the PTO driven PHD. Neverhteless, I can see an advantage having your fel plumbed for other hydraulic uses such as a grapple or 4 in one bucket or maybe a snow blower or something...maybe even a hydraulic winch in the future?

Having the PHD on the backhoe means having to have the backhoe on, of course. But the advantage would be to drill maybe a couple holes without repositioning? Also positioning for any hole might be easier in the first place. The fel PHD's I've seen clamp to the side of the bucket. Is that what yours will be like? If so, the at some point, the bucket could get in the way like right next to a tree or barn etc.... (could?) The backhoe boom and dipper stick are narrow and will not have that restraint. Not having either one though, I would guess having the backhoe PHD would be more to my liking, if I had a choice.

Hydraulic flow would be the same if driven off the tractor. Probably even the same even if the backhoe had it's own PTO pump.

 

[chrisjbell]

If your hoe is powered by your onboard hydraulics (if you have the Kubota hoe that would be the case) then you have the same hydraulic pressure / flow front or rear, I'm pretty sure. No advantage there.

The hoe mounted PHD will be more easily placed where you want it. You can go side to side and front to back with it. Do you need that? I dunno - is it $1200 better for you?

My dealer generally doesn't haggle on attachment prices. You can always shop around, of course...

 

[IslandTractor]

I don't have any PHD but this being TBN that won't stop me from proffering an uninformed opinion.

I appreciate 3RRL's points in favor of a BH mount. Before reading those points I was thinking that having it on the FEL would make more sense as you could move from one hole to another very quickly and not have to get on and off the tractor to drill holes. If you were moving along a pasture fence line installing new posts I'd imagine the FEL mount would be much faster. If you were drilling holes for scrubs in a confined area I guess the BH mount would be more efficient for all the reasons mentioned in 3RRLs post.

 

[Bill Barrett]

I bought a Rhino, and made all the mounts. You can buy everything for 1795.00 for low flow or 1895.00 for high flow.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/106099-mounting-rhino-phd-fel.html

 

[leoniru]

Thanx to all.

Seems that the 'hoe setup would be more easily positioned, require LESS repositioning of the tractor, be more easily leveled, more flexible, and allow direct visual monitoring of the drilling process.

The FEL way would be considerably cheaper, offer more versatility wrt additional future implements (at least for me), and be easier on and off as my 'hoe buckets are not quick attach but the FEL is.

Both setups should allow angled or even horizontal drilling.

A few more questions though.

Which setup would provide the greatest down pressure? And, is this even an issue as both mounting methods would provide plenty.

Which setup would be easier to plumb?

Which would be better in moderate to difficult soil ( rocks, roots, heavy clay, and shale) -- higher (70-85) RPM with 1300 ft./lbs. of torque, or lower (40-55) RPM with higher (2000 ft./lbs.) of torque? (Both sets of figures using an assumed 2500 PSI hydraulic pressure)

Is the planetary gear reduction type hydraulic drive superior to direct or chain drives?


leoniru

 

[tractorworks]

Having used a pto driven PHD and not being able to reach the spot I would love to have it mounted on backhoe. Hydraulic thumb comes to mind for extra use on hydraulics mounted on backhoe. Also could use hydraulic hammer or plate compactor. Reaching out past a dropoff would prevent use of fel mounted auger. Also frees up loader or pallet forks to carry fence posts, tools etc.
Doug

 

[IslandTractor]

Seems that the 'hoe setup would be more easily positioned, require LESS repositioning of the tractor, be more easily leveled, more flexible, and allow direct visual monitoring of the drilling process.

I think this depends on what you are doing. It is much easier to simply lift the FEL and drive the tractor to the next hole if you are putting in holes along a fence line. To do it with the BH would require getting on and off the tractor every couple holes at least. Yes, you'd reposition the tractor more with the FEL but doing so would be much easier especially if you have HST. Visibility with the BH setup would be great; visibility with the FEL set up would depend a bit on how your hood slopes and how well you can see the bucket on the ground now.

 

[chrisjbell]

Which setup would provide the greatest down pressure? And, is this even an issue as both mounting methods would provide plenty.
leoniru

Either one will allow you to put the full weight of the tractor on the implement. You can pick up the machine with either the FEL or the BH.

Whether this is good for the auger or not is another question .

 

[257NH]

I have mine mounted to the loader and absolutely love it.Had it for a year this month and I've done about 200 porch/deck footings with it as well as augering some holes for trees.I am still running on the original shear bolts,gotta love hydraulics.I dont have a hoe but it would also be handy I'm sure.

Auger mount close up
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...c40pics020.jpg

auger from farther back
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...c40picsadj.jpg
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