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  1. #1011
    Gold Member North Country's Avatar
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    VT
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    John Deere 2305

    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    Another question - most folks on here seem to have picked up the 1900BSC (6ft cutting width.) The "B" drum is not an option on the 59" flail (the largest I can run) but the "P" drum (fewer blades, spoon-type with shackles) becomes an option. Both the "A" and "F" drums are still options.

    For a lawn that doesn't need to look like pebble beach as well as a rough field that is absolutely, positively loaded with small hidden stumps & rocks - which drum would you choose? I'd like to get a flail so I can tame my rough field, get another under control, and get rid of the 62" MMM. Aside from hidden stumps, I won't be cutting anything larger than 1" and the rough & steep terrain requires no more than minimum forward speed in the fields.
    NC

    My hills have hills.

  2. #1012
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    15,994
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    Prudence Island, RI
    Tractor
    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    Quote Originally Posted by North Country View Post
    Another question - most folks on here seem to have picked up the 1900BSC (6ft cutting width.) The "B" drum is not an option on the 59" flail (the largest I can run) but the "P" drum (fewer blades, spoon-type with shackles) becomes an option. Both the "A" and "F" drums are still options.

    For a lawn that doesn't need to look like pebble beach as well as a rough field that is absolutely, positively loaded with small hidden stumps & rocks - which drum would you choose? I'd like to get a flail so I can tame my rough field, get another under control, and get rid of the 62" MMM. Aside from hidden stumps, I won't be cutting anything larger than 1" and the rough & steep terrain requires no more than minimum forward speed in the fields.
    I'm not sure the P drum is actually available in the USA at least through AgriSupply which is the main importer. Have you checked specifically or relied on the Caroni website?

    I have the B rotor and would choose it for your application which is similar to mine. How big is your tractor? If you cut regularly and are not using it as a bush hog, a 30hp tractor would run the six foot B rotor version. You might need to slow down in heavy grass but a smaller tractor can definitely run that mower.

  3. #1013
    Gold Member North Country's Avatar
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    VT
    Tractor
    John Deere 2305

    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    I haven't reached anyone at AgriSupply yet - I was looking at the Caroni website. The B model isn't listed in that size, and AgriSupply doesn't list the B as stocked. They only list the "F" (*NOT* what I want) in the 59" and 48". "B" would be my preference if available. I won't cut anything that hasn't been cut in the last few years, and things just don't grow that fast up here. Lawn will be cut every 10-14 days and the field every month or two.

    I have a 24hp, JD 2305. 72" is out of the question; it's a 48" or 59". Even if I can run a 59" (Caroni's website says yes, as well as the 4hp/ft rule) I may get a 48" for size. I have some tight spaces. That will be a tough decision as the 59" is only $50 more than the 48"!

    Slowing down in heavy grass isn't a problem. I never use high range if I'm not on my roads; my land is just too steep & uneven. I go walking speed or less at all times when I'm not on the lawn. Hopefully things will be smoother in a few years, but they're not right now.
    NC

    My hills have hills.

  4. #1014
    Gold Member North Country's Avatar
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    VT
    Tractor
    John Deere 2305

    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    The decision unfortunately got a lot easier. Pay now, have the special order Caroni delivered in August. That's going to be some very tall grass...

    I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the "heavy duty" Betst/Value Leader 48" flail. I am having them replace the Y blades with the hammer/spoon blade. In stock, will be here next week just in time for the first cut of the year.

    NC

    My hills have hills.

  5. #1015
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    Prudence Island, RI
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    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by North Country
    The decision unfortunately got a lot easier. Pay now, have the special order Caroni delivered in August. That's going to be some very tall grass...

    I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the "heavy duty" Betst/Value Leader 48" flail. I am having them replace the Y blades with the hammer/spoon blade. In stock, will be here next week just in time for the first cut of the year.
    Should work just fine. Be aware that flail mowers require more preventive maintenance than rotary cutters. Learn to grease rotor bearings and drive shaft components before each mowing (or if you are organized after every four hours or so of mowing). When you feel unusual vibration stop and check you haven't lost a knife/hammer.

  6. #1016
    Silver Member IC Smoke's Avatar
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    May 2007
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    192
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    PITTSFORD, MI
    Tractor
    Kubota B2400, ZD28, BX24

    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    It quit raining finally! I had to catch up on a few lawns so I had my hired guy knock out my field at home!

    Ford 861 Powermaster and Ford 907 Flail mower (7' offset)

    89 CASE 480E
    KUBOTA ZD331-72", BX24, ZD28-60", B2400
    Allis Chalmers "G"
    Ford 861 Powermaster

  7. #1017
    Gold Member TerryR's Avatar
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    Jan 2009
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    271
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    Boone, NC
    Tractor
    JD 870

    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    I'm looking at a flail mower to replace my 60" bushhog squealer. I mow about 4 acres of hillside, moderate to fairly steep, twice a year. So I cut grass a foot or two tall, heavy in places, and briers and locust trees half an inch or so in diameter, new growth. I have a JD 870, rated at 28 hp, and run in 3rd gear (1.5 mph, according to the chart on the fender). The next gear up is nearly twice as fast, and uncomfortable on my terrain.

    The issues I mainly want to address are 1) the grass run over by the tires largely isn't picked up by the bushhog, so it pops up a couple of days later, and 2) I get quite a windrow of cut grass left along one side, enough to kill the grass under it in places. It would also be nice to reduce the scalping caused by dips in the ground in some places.

    I know a flail will address the windrow issue, and help with the scalping. But does it do better with picking up the downed grass in the wheel track? One post said you need one with forward rotation for best results on that count.

    I see a lot of interest in the Caroni TM1900 here, and that sounds good. I'd like to pick up the extra foot of cutting width, but I see Caroni suggests 30 to 60 hp for all the TM models. Can I expect my 870 to handle the TM1900?

    AgriSupply says it has "rear rotation" - does that mean it rotates the opposite of tractor wheels? If so, can I expect it to pick up the grass downed by the wheels?

    If I'm willing to pay more than the price of the Caroni, can I get something that will do a noticably better job for me?

    Terry

  8. #1018
    Elite Member
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    NE USA
    Tractor
    JD LA115, WH 244, WH 525 hydro-pops,Original Troy Built Horse 8 HP

    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryR View Post
    I'm looking at a flail mower to replace my 60" bushhog squealer. I mow about 4 acres of hillside, moderate to fairly steep, twice a year. So I cut grass a foot or two tall, heavy in places, and briers and locust trees half an inch or so in diameter, new growth. I have a JD 870, rated at 28 hp, and run in 3rd gear (1.5 mph, according to the chart on the fender). The next gear up is nearly twice as fast, and uncomfortable on my terrain.

    The issues I mainly want to address are 1) the grass run over by the tires largely isn't picked up by the bushhog, so it pops up a couple of days later, and 2) I get quite a windrow of cut grass left along one side, enough to kill the grass under it in places. It would also be nice to reduce the scalping caused by dips in the ground in some places.

    I know a flail will address the windrow issue, and help with the scalping. But does it do better with picking up the downed grass in the wheel track? One post said you need one with forward rotation for best results on that count.

    I see a lot of interest in the Caroni TM1900 here, and that sounds good. I'd like to pick up the extra foot of cutting width, but I see Caroni suggests 30 to 60 hp for all the TM models. Can I expect my 870 to handle the TM1900?

    AgriSupply says it has "rear rotation" - does that mean it rotates the opposite of tractor wheels? If so, can I expect it to pick up the grass downed by the wheels?

    If I'm willing to pay more than the price of the Caroni, can I get something that will do a noticably better job for me?

    Terry




    Hello Terry and welcome to the forum;

    I would contact ken sweet here on the forum and inquire about his Sicma line of flail mowers with cup knives as he is a sponsor of the tractorbynet forum in good standing and he ships from his warehouse as well.

    ================================================== ==================================================


    When the folks at Agri supply tell you its rear rotation
    the flail mower rotor rotates opposite the direction of travel in forward.

    If you are facing the Caroni flail mower on the left side the flail motor rotor is
    traveling clockwise at work.

    which slices the brush and lifts it over the rotor and back down to the ground.

    The issue with your mule is power and stability
    at all times with your terrain.

    I do not think it would be safe for you and your tractor to use the TM1900 as it will be under
    powered and with your ground conditions a smaller width flail mower will be easier to manage
    and a smaller flail will take it down to sod just as easily for you, it will just take a bit more time
    to police the mowed area but you will have very good control of the invasives and poison ivy, sumac,
    and poison oak types of woody brush.

    With your terrain it will be easier for you to back up and drive down due to the steep grades with the flail mower.

    Any flail mower purchased will be shorter in overall length
    if it is mounted to the three point hitch versus the total
    housing length of a rotary brush cutter.

    A flail operated at speed will pick up matted grass and
    brush when driven forward and in reverse and chop it a
    second or third time to total shreds to compost easily.

    The added benefit of a rear or front mounted flail mower
    is that it will suction up the previously cut grass and brush
    and cut it again a second or third time for you without
    batting an eyelash as the knives are essentially airfoils
    creating huge amounts of lift which lifts up the grass and
    cuttings.


    The flail mower rotor on heavy flail mowers used for
    roadside verges and banks rotate in the direction forward
    travel to keep from tossing any possible debris at vehicles
    approaching from the rear.

    A standard flail mower can operate in either forward rotation or
    rearward rotation strictly depending on the manufacturer and the
    ability to offer this option for grass cutting which depends on
    pulley placement and V belt routing under the belt shroud.


    With your tractor ad terrain it would be safer for you to purchase
    one of the 48 inch units being the TL1200PSC with a P rotor which
    carries the scoop knives and still offers a decent cut or or a B rotor
    but you may have to wait a while for one of them unless one of
    the other stores in the chain has one and can ship it to you.


    Many three point hitch flail mowers in Europe are front mounted on tractors
    using a "standard rear rotating drum mower" which will throw the grass
    clippings forward as the front or Mid P.T.O., will be operating in the opposite
    direction which in turn will cast the clippings out and avoid packing the radiator
    full of fresh grass clippings which is possible due to the flail knive having two
    cutting edges per knive and two knives per hanger which allows this flexibility.

    The scoop knives are essentially that- a scoop with a cutting edge that creates a
    huge amount suction over the width of the flail motor rotor.

    I would seriously chat with ken Sweet as he is one of our fine sponsors and ask if
    he has any of his Sicma line in stock with the scoop type knives as the scoop type
    knives are more resistant to damage and still offer an excellent cutting of brush
    and sod with a bit of a waffle pattern as there are fewer knives on the this type
    of flail mower rotor.

  9. #1019
    Gold Member TerryR's Avatar
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    Jan 2009
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    271
    Location
    Boone, NC
    Tractor
    JD 870

    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    Quote Originally Posted by leonz View Post
    Hello Terry and welcome to the forum
    Thanks, Leonz,
    I would contact ken sweet here on the forum and inquire about his Sicma line of flail mowers with cup knives as he is a sponsor of the tractorbynet forum in good standing and he ships from his warehouse as well.
    I've looked at his website and find no trace of the Sicma line, but I've dropped him a note to inquire.
    The issue with your mule is power and stability at all times with your terrain.

    I do not think it would be safe for you and your tractor to use the TM1900 as it will be under powered and with your ground conditions a smaller width flail mower will be easier to manage...

    With your terrain it will be easier for you to back up and drive down due to the steep grades with the flail mower.
    Why is that the case with a flail and not with the rotary I've been using?
    A flail operated at speed will pick up matted grass and
    brush when driven forward and in reverse and chop it a
    second or third time to total shreds to compost easily.
    But will a reverse rotation unit really pick up the grass matted by the wheels? Solving that is the primary reason for looking for something new. When I talk to the folks at Rears they suggest I'll have better luck with forward rotation.
    With your tractor ad terrain it would be safer for you to purchase
    one of the 48 inch units...
    If that's the case I'm afraid I'll stay with my rotary - I don't have any interest in going to a narrower cutting width.

    Terry

  10. #1020
    Elite Member
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    Sep 2008
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    Location
    NE USA
    Tractor
    JD LA115, WH 244, WH 525 hydro-pops,Original Troy Built Horse 8 HP

    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    I mentioned the narrower flail mower only on the basis of smaller mower wieght.

    ken carries the Sicma line and another brand of flail mower.

    The TM1900 may work well if you have front wieghts and loaded tires
    or just loaded tires.


    If you have any slope that is 15 degree's or greater in rise and run it is better to back up the slope and drive down the slope to avoid the chance of an end over end roll over. Your rotary hugs the ground making a wide foot print in square footage of contact if you lower it to the side rails and drag it up and down.


    Matting the brush down in forward lays the heads of the weeds forward and the flail knives will shred in either direction of rotation as most kn ives are double edged except for the scoop knives as they can shear in one direction.

    They may have suggested the forward rotation simply from the perspective of hidden stumps and exposed roots that the mower rotor may encounter throwing the debris forward if it is very large in size to avoid jamming the rotor and tearing up the the V belts.

    The key to good shredding of brush with a flail is slow speed and lowering the mower all the way to the ground to hug the sod.

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