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  1. #1241
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    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    We may be talking about different knife styles.
    On mine they are pairs of "L" shaped knives, with the horizontal leg drooped down a bit;
    |

    OK, maybe not THAT much.
    That is paired with one that is flipped;
    |
    /
    As a pair, maybe they form an inverted "Y"

    As to how one knows what one knows....
    Some combination of senses and deductive reasoning.
    I did not record the time and date.

    Anyway, reverting to;
    || with the middle of the roller in this -> direction
    \
    has resulted in no further jams.

    The jam that I got almost certainly resulted from the shackle and knife falling to the outside at spin down.
    It probably required just the wrong combination of speed and position, perhaps combined with a bit of tilt, to happen.




    Hello Reg,

    About your mower; the side slicers should always point
    away from each other no matter their position on the
    A, B, or F Caroni flail mower rotor and be back to back,
    vertical to vertical no matter the posiition/knife station
    on the flail mowers rotor.

    The shackle should always remain stationary on the knife station
    and should NEVER ever move from side to side.

    If the shackle is that worn it needs to be replaced.


    One of the Caroni employees must have been pissed at
    his or her boss or was careless about installing the
    side slicer pair that is like this or was like this.

  2. #1242
    Reg
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    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    Quote Originally Posted by leonz View Post
    Hello Reg,

    About your mower; the side slicers should always point
    away from each other no matter their position on the
    A, B, or F Caroni flail mower rotor and be back to back,
    vertical to vertical no matter the posiition/knife station
    on the flail mowers rotor.

    The shackle should always remain stationary on the knife station
    and should NEVER ever move from side to side.

    If the shackle is that worn it needs to be replaced.


    One of the Caroni employees must have been pissed at
    his or her boss or was careless about installing the
    side slicer pair that is like this or was like this.
    That was my initial reaction too, i.e. an assembly error, whether or not deliberate.
    This was in no way "worn" it was at the time a very new mower.
    The only reason I was in there was my (obsessive) habit of taking new things apart to reassemble them with grease so that they aren't rusted together when maintenance is needed.

    If I had not got the jam a few days later I would have left it "corrected".
    Since I have had no more jams since and there are no other problems I will leave it just the way it came from the factory.

    I think this is a probability thing, some exactly wrong combination of position during spin down and tilt of the roller with this end of the roller down COULD cause the knives and shackle to flop outwards and jam the next start-up.
    It might be one in 10 or one in 10 million, for me it was one in the first two or three (of some unknown number).

    My belief is that it is a design fault that (again, in MY sample) can be masked by an unauthorized assembly procedure.
    This is not uncommon - sometimes the guys and gals on the line DO fix "engineering's" problems (-:

  3. #1243
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    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    That was my initial reaction too, i.e. an assembly error, whether or not deliberate.
    This was in no way "worn" it was at the time a very new mower.
    The only reason I was in there was my (obsessive) habit of taking new things apart to reassemble them with grease so that they aren't rusted together when maintenance is needed.

    If I had not got the jam a few days later I would have left it "corrected".
    Since I have had no more jams since and there are no other problems I will leave it just the way it came from the factory.

    I think this is a probability thing, some exactly wrong combination of position during spin down and tilt of the roller with this end of the roller down COULD cause the knives and shackle to flop outwards and jam the next start-up.
    It might be one in 10 or one in 10 million, for me it was one in the first two or three (of some unknown number).

    My belief is that it is a design fault that (again, in MY sample) can be masked by an unauthorized assembly procedure.
    This is not uncommon - sometimes the guys and gals on the line DO fix "engineering's" problems (-:



    The design fault could be a miss postitioned knife hanger if a welding jig is not used
    for positioning the knife hangers Reg.

    The other issue is run up and cycling with a high speed horizontal balancing machine.

    If the rotor was balanced prior to the installation of the knives on the knife stations
    and not balanced again with the knives and shackles installed prior to assembling the
    mower but I think the greasing of the parts may be the issue as you would not have
    gotten the mower if this problem exisited and if they had balanced the rotor with the
    shackled and side slicers prior to assembly.


    The other issue is using grease as the grease is a dirt magnet and will hold dirt and
    grass fines.

    I do not use any lubricant of any type as they attract dirt and debris and eventually limit
    the movement of the shackle and knves over time.

    You should only have a very fine grass dust adhering to the rotor, shackles and side slicers
    as this also limits the ability of the shackle and knives to fall away as they are designed to do.


    EDIT: At most I would recommend using fluid film and only fluid film on the threaded or cotter pinned portion
    of a knive hanger(in my case my knive hangers are spring mounted which permits me to dismount the side
    slicers and dethatching blades when the gras dust is removed by scraping away any excess that limits the
    knive hanger to slde freely within the weldment which holds the knive hanger.
    ANY opportunity to use a hot high pressure washer at the car wash will only help the flail mower owner for seasonal
    end of year maintanance as it will break up any grass fines adhering toteh mower hood/shackles/knives/pins or bolts.
    Last edited by leonz; 04-30-2012 at 10:51 AM.

  4. #1244
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    The only reason I was in there was my (obsessive) habit of taking new things apart to reassemble them with grease so that they aren't rusted together when maintenance is needed.
    On this point, I just had to change two sets of blades on my TM1900 yesterday in prepping it for the new season. I had trouble getting both nuts off but it was not a lubrication issue. The threads that extend beyond the nut itself are very vulnerable to damage by "hard" debris and when damaged make it difficult to back off the nuts. They also tend to rust a bit and are obviously covered with grime which doesn't help. I'm thinking of cutting the unnecessary length off (1cm) in the future. Just be careful to use a very clean cutting tool so there will not be thread damage or cut with a nut on which can be backed off to clean up the threads before installation.

    I didn't notice this issue previously as I always used an air wrench to install/remove the nuts but was using hand wrenches because I screwed up my compressor by adding too much oil (note to self, don't assume a black tube attached to the compressor oil cap is a dip stick, check for a sight glass next time!)

  5. #1245
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    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    We may be talking about different knife styles.
    On mine they are pairs of "L" shaped knives, with the horizontal leg drooped down a bit;
    |

    OK, maybe not THAT much.
    That is paired with one that is flipped;
    |
    /
    As a pair, maybe they form an inverted "Y"

    As to how one knows what one knows....
    Some combination of senses and deductive reasoning.
    I did not record the time and date.

    Anyway, reverting to;
    || with the middle of the roller in this -> direction
    \
    has resulted in no further jams.

    The jam that I got almost certainly resulted from the shackle and knife falling to the outside at spin down.
    It probably required just the wrong combination of speed and position, perhaps combined with a bit of tilt, to happen.
    My dad's Caroni has the knives shown on the "B" rotor in this pic:


  6. #1246
    Reg
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    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    Quote Originally Posted by beppington View Post
    My dad's Caroni has the knives shown on the "B" rotor in this pic:

    Mine are also as depicted in "B" - in fact I think they refer to that as a B rotor.
    It is easy to see that when that rotor is horizontal the knives/shackle on top of the roller can flop in a few different directions.
    As I keep saying in ONE case MINE flopped outwards causing a jam on the next re-start.
    When I said I had taken mine apart to grease things that would likely rust together I had NOT meant to imply that I slather grease all over everything like cream cheese on bagels.
    It was basically the THREADS of the shackle pins, which I anticipated would need to be pulled from time to time for knife sharpening or replacement.

    Yeah, I'm not going to speculate as to whether or not which worker failed to use which jig/template when welding what to which, or used it incorrectly.
    I just know what I found, what I did, what happened after that, what I did then, what has not happened since, etc.

  7. #1247
    Reg
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    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandTractor View Post
    On this point, I just had to change two sets of blades on my TM1900 yesterday in prepping it for the new season. I had trouble getting both nuts off but it was not a lubrication issue. The threads that extend beyond the nut itself are very vulnerable to damage by "hard" debris and when damaged make it difficult to back off the nuts. They also tend to rust a bit and are obviously covered with grime which doesn't help. I'm thinking of cutting the unnecessary length off (1cm) in the future. Just be careful to use a very clean cutting tool so there will not be thread damage or cut with a nut on which can be backed off to clean up the threads before installation.

    I didn't notice this issue previously as I always used an air wrench to install/remove the nuts but was using hand wrenches because I screwed up my compressor by adding too much oil (note to self, don't assume a black tube attached to the compressor oil cap is a dip stick, check for a sight glass next time!)
    I am having trouble figuring where there is a cm or so of excess thread.
    Not the shackle bolts ?

    If it is not a moving part, i.e. if balance doesn't matter, I would be tempted to add another jam nut to protect the excess thread rather than cutting it off.

    If it IS a moving part and balance does matter I would be very leary of cutting off the excess.
    Putting extra thread protecting nuts on is REVERSIBLE - cutting off excess threads ?, not so much.

  8. #1248
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    Default

    Good points on balance although so long as all the bolts are the same size it would remain balanced with either the extra bolt or shortened bolt. On my mower there is excess thread after the bolt is fully seated. Adding another 28 bolts to cover the excess would be extra work, weight and $. Should be able to reuse the extra bolts but I always replace the main lock nut and bolt when replacing blades and shackle. Maybe I can find a bolt that is a centimeter shorter. I think I got the ones I have now from Grainger rather than AgriSupply. AgriSupply charges an arm and leg for their metric nuts and bolts and offers no volume discount. (likewise on the $7 clevis but I haven't found a suitable metric replacement and SAE clevis sizes are too big or small).

  9. #1249
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    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    Here are a few suppliers of shackles andchain shackles which are used for the Caroni's.


    The crosby group seems to have the most assortment of shackles.



    Welcome To Hamilton Marine


    Home


    www.deltariggging.com


    Rigging, lifting ,crane and hoist including sheaves and plate clamps





    Rigging Equipment and Supplies - RiggingWarehouse.com


    Chain, Chain Supplies, Binder Chains, Lifting Slings and Hooks



    I think the Agrisupply price for
    the U type chain shackle which
    is that the shackle is less expensive
    than all the others.


    The one added benefit of note for the Crosby
    or Campbell Metric U chain shackles is that the
    nut is anchored and then followed by a cotter
    pin in the bolt used for the U bolt type U shackles
    they offer for chain.

  10. #1250
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    Default Re: Let's talk flail mowers

    Here is a fact sheet for crosby shackles as an example
    Attached Files Attached Files

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