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  1. #1
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    51
    Location
    West Virginia
    Tractor
    Satoh S-650G

    Default 3pt Backhoe...Do I need to lift it?

    I've got a pretty good deal lined out on a 3pt backhoe w/ pto pump. My question is related to the lift capacity of my 3pt system. The backhoe weighs around 1100lbs. My 3pt is rated to lift 1050lbs (new) and it has some age on it, so I know it won't lift the hoe attachment. Is this a big deal? I have never used one so I don't even know if it was meant to be lifted by the 3pt or attached and left alone. I have a FEL so I'm not worried about making the tractor too light in the front. How do you guys run them?? I can see where it would be handy to vary the height of the hoe, just not sure if it's necessary.

  2. #2
    Super Member California's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,351
    Location
    Sonoma County
    Tractor
    Yanmar YM240, and now just one YM186D

    Default Re: 3pt Backhoe...Do I need to lift it?

    It's not going to work, to carry that on the 3-point. I think it's too heavy to lift.

    My 3-point is rated 1430 lbs and the backhoe was claimed to weigh 750. I can lift it, but it's grunting, same as it does carrying 800 lbs of ballasted disc that hangs out a ways.

    I think that hoe is sufficiently oversize that it will need a chassis mount.
    Last edited by California; 05-31-2008 at 12:12 AM.

  3. #3
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    6,595

    Default Re: 3pt Backhoe...Do I need to lift it?

    Well, you don't use the 3pt while operating the hoe, so it's sort of not real important from one point of view.

    But, 3pt lift caps are also about mechanical strength of the machine. The hoe will "weigh" a lot more when it is digging. It will pick up the tractor and pull it down. Sounds to me like you would want a super stout frame mount for a hoe that size. (maybe even a smaller size?)

    jb

  4. #4
    Veteran Member wedge40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,216

    Default Re: 3pt Backhoe...Do I need to lift it?

    I dont think it'll work, but getting a bigger tractor that will lift BH would be a good idea.

    Wedg
    1967 Ford 4000,Mahindra 4530 with FEL and BH, Box blade, straight blade, FEL, Rake, Bushhog, Backhoe, Jinma chipper, KKII tiller, Grapple. Mahindra 4530, with FEL and Backhoe.

  5. #5
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    207
    Location
    Connecticut
    Tractor
    NH TC40DA

    Default Re: 3pt Backhoe...Do I need to lift it?

    I agree that you are going to likely overtax your tractor. Being near the high end or just above the recommended range can be dealing with fire. Why take the chance of damaging your tractor?
    Paul

    NH TC40DA - Salsco Chipper, LandPride 72" Finish Mower, Jacobson B40 Blower, Pronovost 72" Rear Snowblower, York Rake, Quick Tach Pallet Forks, 94" New Holland 918 Flail Mower, Construction Attachments 4 in 1

  6. #6
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    51
    Location
    West Virginia
    Tractor
    Satoh S-650G

    Default Re: 3pt Backhoe...Do I need to lift it?

    Maybe I'm mistaken on the weight of the hoe. It's either a 6' or 7' 3pt hoe. My tractor is a Satoh 650G (approx. 3500 pounds without the FEL). I've seen alot of much smaller kubota tractors with backhoes, so I figured I'd be OK. Now I'm worried!! I got the backhoe "bug" from looking at the 25hp tractors in the Northern Tool catalog.
    I like your ideas about a subframe. If anyone has some pictures of subframe designs, I'd love to see them. I can fabricate most anything within reason, but I don't have any idea what to build. I did a quick search on subframes, and the "universal fit" ones were sky high (and didn't show any pictures).

    Thanks for all the replies!

  7. #7
    Silver Member Window Geek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    217
    Location
    Central Mass.
    Tractor
    2006 Kubota 7610 HST 4WD

    Default Re: 3pt Backhoe...Do I need to lift it?

    Bl8,
    You can look up the backhoe and subframe needed on the woods web site. You find your tractor and backhoe combo and then download the subframe manual from the web site. At least you get an idea how it works.

    Paul
    [#] Window Geek
    [#]
    When my wife said, "You've waited long enough for a tractor. Go get one.", I knew exactly what to say:

    "YES DEAR."

    Kubota B7610 HST 4WD
    LA352 FEL, B2765A front blade, 3 pt carryall, bucket forks, spreader, lifting boom, 2" receiver, TSC PHD, KK II 4' rototiller, Salsco chipper, towable splitter, homemade 3 pt pallet forks, 7' back blade, 6' yard rake w/ homemade gauge wheels, HF Quick Hitch

  8. #8
    Super Member Henro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    5,364
    Location
    Few miles north of Pgh, PA
    Tractor
    Kubota B2910, BX2200, Yardman 20HP pos...

    Default Re: 3pt Backhoe...Do I need to lift it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bl8tant
    I've seen alot of much smaller kubota tractors with backhoes, so I figured I'd be OK. Now I'm worried!!

    Thanks for all the replies!
    I am not sure that you need to be worried.

    I have a 3 point hitch backhoe on my Kubota B2910. You actually are supposed to make sure you are NOT lifting the hoe with the 3PT hitch when it is on. This is because the hoe hooks to the tractor at the top link position as well as the lift arms, and lift is not really possible. So if you try to lift, you trip the tractors hydraulic pressure relief valve...

    One thing you do have to keep in mind is that the top link tie point is important when you are using a 3 PT hoe. Should it break, it is possible for the hoe to move upwards, since the lower arms will float UP (have no down pressure capability) and you could be pinned between the hoe and your rops. Death has occured in at least one case from this happening.

    During use, the backhoe outriggers help a lot at taking some of the stresses generated. On my tractor, although it is a 3PT backhoe, Kubota did add some extra side bracing between the rear axle (if I remember right, can't look now as I am not home) and the loader frame, and a reinforced top link bracket, which spreads stressed over more of the rear axle housing.

    Retrofitting a 3PH hoe into a subframe hoe is an idea, but it might be a lot of work. In the end doing so would probably take away the fear of damaging the tractor while using the hoe.

    I love having a backhoe as do most that have them. Hope you get yours up and working for you without too much hassle.

    Hope these thoughts are of some use...

  9. #9
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,746
    Location
    Batavia, NY
    Tractor
    Mahindra -------------

    Default Re: 3pt Backhoe...Do I need to lift it?

    The 3ph backhoe doesn't have to be lifted by the 3ph arms, so the lift capacity doesn't matter, but you can break the tractor if your 3ph mountings aren't strong enough. Where the top link of the backhoe attaches to the hoe, also attach a medium duty turn buckel to each side and some how attach the the other end to the axil housing on each side and tighten them up. This will take a lot of stress off of the top link tractor mount. When using the backhoe and you find something doesn't want to move, use your head and approach a different angle or something different. Don't just keep banging on the object as this is how you will break your tractor. Good luck with it.
    Galen LaWall
    Your Mahindra Tractor Dealer
    185 Pearl Street
    Batavia, New York 14020
    585.343.0770

  10. #10
    Veteran Member irwin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,297
    Location
    SE Conn
    Tractor
    2004 Kubota L35TLB, '89' Cub Cadet 1541

    Default Re: 3pt Backhoe...Do I need to lift it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bl8tant
    Maybe I'm mistaken on the weight of the hoe. It's either a 6' or 7' 3pt hoe. My tractor is a Satoh 650G (approx. 3500 pounds without the FEL). I've seen alot of much smaller kubota tractors with backhoes, so I figured I'd be OK. Now I'm worried!! I got the backhoe "bug" from looking at the 25hp tractors in the Northern Tool catalog.
    I like your ideas about a subframe. If anyone has some pictures of subframe designs, I'd love to see them. I can fabricate most anything within reason, but I don't have any idea what to build. I did a quick search on subframes, and the "universal fit" ones were sky high (and didn't show any pictures).

    Thanks for all the replies!
    Several of us on TNB went out bought a 3pt hoe and built a subframe for it. I'm not going to tell you it wasn't work to build, but it was a good project and one that raises the tractors usefulness by a significant degree.
    Do a search on "3pt backhoe" or "subframe" and look around. If you have any specific questions for me, go ahead and PM me.

    Here's a few pics of my rough but tough homemade subframe. Most of the home made subframes on here are much better looking then mine. It does feel like it's a solid part of the tractor now.

    ..........
    .....Tim

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