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  1. #61
    Veteran Member canoetrpr's Avatar
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    Ontario, Canada
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    Kubota M7040 cab/hyd shuttle - current, Kubota L3400 - traded

    Default Re: Beginners guide to using a box blade

    I'd appreciate it if someone could explain what draft control actually is.
    Current: Kubota M7040 cab, hydraulic shuttle, Kubota M20 loader (made by ALO), LandPride RCR1872 rotary cutter, Horst bale spears & forks, Woods HB72 box blade, Kodiak 7' rake, Walco cultivator, chain harrow, Meteor 74" pull style blower

    Traded: Kubota L3400, LA473 HST (300 hrs), and various attachments

  2. #62
    Super Member Farmwithjunk's Avatar
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    Where do I begin.....

    Default Re: Beginners guide to using a box blade

    Quote Originally Posted by canoetrpr
    I'd appreciate it if someone could explain what draft control actually is.
    Here's how Harry Ferguson designed it




    Yesterday's Tractors - Ferguson System Principal and Theory of Operation
    There are three kinds of men;
    1.) The ones that learn by reading
    2.) The few who learn by observation
    3.) The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

  3. #63
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    Kubota L5030 GST, Top & Tilt

    Default Re: Beginners guide to using a box blade

    Quote Originally Posted by jmc
    wnsllc,

    So when the resistance gets too high, the 3 point hitch automatically raises until the original resistance is restored?

    And if the resistance gets too low, the 3 point hitch drops?

    John
    You nailed it. You set how low you wish the implement to go with the positional control and use the draft control to do the rest.

    Always owning MFs I assumed all tractors had this feature until a friend expressed his frustration of not being able to create a level surface with his box scraper. I had him come over and use one of our Masseys - it was fun to watch his face as he was quickly able to create the results he desired in just a short time. He finished landscaping his yard using my tractor.

    When shopping around for a CUT I was surprised that draft control is not an option for many of the manufacturers. When I asked why, the dealers looked at me like I was looney.

    Rik
    Last edited by Lewiston; 06-14-2008 at 04:07 PM.
    Rik

  4. #64
    Veteran Member Glowplug's Avatar
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    Kubota M7040HD

    Default Re: Beginners guide to using a box blade

    Ever since I bought my tractor I have wanted a box blade. Still haven't purchased one though. But now I REALLY want one since I have draft control. Sounds like it would be a very enjoyable experience practicing!

    Cammond makes some seriously heavy duty box blades, like 1400# or more!
    Their 4C5 line has a rear blade that can be placed in a hinged "float" position or a fixed "locked" position. Here is their explanation for the advantages of each:


    "ADVANTAGES IN “FLOAT" TAILBOARD POSITION:


    Increases the aggressiveness of the front cutting edge (up to 5 times the amount of a scraper with a fixed

    rear tailboard) without wearing out the front side plates by tilting the scraper forward.
    Allows unwanted material (rock, brush, etc.) to pass through the scraper without hanging up.
    Allows the scraper to pull dirt when grading from a semi-vertical slope to a flat surface.

    ADVANTAGES IN "LOCKED" TAILBOARD POSITION:


    Increased strength when working in extremely hard ground.

    By extending the top link cylinder, the front blade can be lifted completely off the ground surface, which
    allows the scraper to be used as a float? This control feature is very helpful when grading light material,
    such as sand, compost, etc.
    Operates more effectively when back filling trenches, ditches, etc."*

    * 'Lifted' directly from Cammond's website.

    Hope some find this information helpful.

    BTW, I really want the Cammond 4C5-84. But you're talking about 1410# and probably $3,000! Of course it does have hydraulically activated scarifiers.
    Chuck

  5. #65
    Veteran Member canoetrpr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginners guide to using a box blade

    FWJ, excellent explanation in that post. Makes perfect sense that a draft control would work quite nicely with a box blade for leveling.

    Rik - how do you make the initial setting of the draft control when operating a box blade? What is the 'right' amount of resistance?

    I don't believe that draft control is an option for an L3400 but one day I will get me one of them grand Ls and I will be getting the draft control option with it. I remember my implement dealer asking me why I wanted guage wheels on my rake. He asked me why I just didn't use the draft control to keep the height level. He was surprised that anyone would ever sell a tractor without draft control but it seems like most CUTs do come without it by default.

    Glowplug - that sounds like a a BEAST of a box blade!

    I've been box blading a few times now.... with mixed results. The odd time I have been able to create a level surface (well somewhat level anyway) but not always for the whole drive ;-) Today I switched to using my landscape rake (wo. the guage wheels as the welds on them broke) and that seems to be working somewhat reasonbly for creating final surface. Still a bunch of work to do on the drive.
    Current: Kubota M7040 cab, hydraulic shuttle, Kubota M20 loader (made by ALO), LandPride RCR1872 rotary cutter, Horst bale spears & forks, Woods HB72 box blade, Kodiak 7' rake, Walco cultivator, chain harrow, Meteor 74" pull style blower

    Traded: Kubota L3400, LA473 HST (300 hrs), and various attachments

  6. #66
    Elite Member
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    MtnViewRanch's Avatar
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    Mahindra 7520, Mahindra 3215HST, Case 580 extendahoe, Case 310 dozer, Parsons trencher, Cat D6,

    Default Re: Beginners guide to using a box blade

    Just think of all the fun that you're having while learning. And remember, practice, practice, practice. None of us were masters before we started.
    Brian
    Top and Tilt Kits by Fit Rite Hydraulics

  7. #67
    Veteran Member canoetrpr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginners guide to using a box blade

    Thanks for the encouragement :-). I've found most luck with the following procedure:

    - Extend top link all the way.
    - Drop BB so all the weight is on the ground and slowly lift up so that the 3PT takes some weight off the ground.

    The cutting edge of the front blade still engages at this point so the box will fill up but not too aggressively. The rear blade is in contact with the ground and is leaving a smoothish surface.

    The difficult areas I find are going over bumps. As the tractor goes over a bump, the blade height that I set needs adustment as the blade either lifts up too high or digs too deep. I think that this is where the draft control would come in handy.

    I've also found best results when I am driving at a reaaaaally slow pace.
    Current: Kubota M7040 cab, hydraulic shuttle, Kubota M20 loader (made by ALO), LandPride RCR1872 rotary cutter, Horst bale spears & forks, Woods HB72 box blade, Kodiak 7' rake, Walco cultivator, chain harrow, Meteor 74" pull style blower

    Traded: Kubota L3400, LA473 HST (300 hrs), and various attachments

  8. #68
    Member
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    Kubota L5030 GST, Top & Tilt

    Default Re: Beginners guide to using a box blade

    Quote Originally Posted by MtnViewRanch
    Just think of all the fun that you're having while learning. And remember, practice, practice, practice. None of us were masters before we started.
    Canoe,
    Brian said it all - that's half the fun.

    Rik
    Rik

  9. #69
    Veteran Member
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    Western Washington
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    5300 JD 4X4

    Default Re: Beginners guide to using a box blade

    for leveling and slope, has anyone tried using a lazer? I mounted a pipe on my blade so I can put an upright to stick my reciever on. By putting the sending unit where it can "see" the reciever you can level or slope to the knat's a-- so to say.
    The first time I tried this I was doing a ditch. I set the tripod up with a lazer light on my level, measured the distance from the bottom of ditch to the light, dialed in a bit of fall, measured the same distance from the tip of my blade to a 2x4 i stood on the blade and stapled a rifle target. By keeping the light zeroed on the target I was able to make a straight ditch and maintain grade.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Beginners guide to using a box blade

    I have wondered about box blading. Searching I found this and I have answered post to bring forward for others who need. The answers below are so great. I, for one, really appreciate the time taken to answer.

    Coffeeman

    Quote Originally Posted by 3RRL View Post
    Ok, I'll give it a shot...

    - Scarfying I found easy. I shorten the top link and in a couple of passes things are loosend up.
    Right. That is what you want to do anytime you have a "hump" or hard spot to cut off. Then you can drag it away with the blade. Put the scarifiers up, out of the way or even upside down when not in use.

    - To scrape, I lengthen the top link and it scrapes quite nicely and fills the box quickly.
    Right again, except sometimes either lengthening or even shortening might produce a slicing cutting with the front blade. It depends how much your front cutting blade sticks down below the side panels. Somewhere in the middle of that adjustment is where you want to set the top link so that the front blade barely, if at all cuts. The rear blade would also sit about the same as the front, so now it can smooth. They are even.
    If I want to scrape aggressively or more like cut, I tilt the box forward a bit, shortening the top link so that the front blade cuts more than the rear would smooth.

    I struggle a bit with what to do with the load that I have just scraped. Sounds like a basic question but I thought I would ask. Do you just spread it as you are moving forward, or, turn the tractor around and pull it back over the area you scraped it from and re-deposit it by gradually raising the blade?... or something else?
    That's your choice.
    Do you have a spot to drag it to on the road or area you are scraping, such as a low spot you want to build up or fill? If not, drag it to another spot out of the way where you can get to it later with either the boxblade or your fel bucket and move it.

    If I'm scraping a 300 ft drive, if I am not spreading as I scrape, I'm going to leave about 10 little 'hills' on the drive. Do you just go back and spread them after?
    Yes, spread them out after or move them with your fel bucket like I said above. Sometimes you will find "low" spots on the road you want to fill and compact to make the road more level.

    - Levelling - thats a nother story. I cannot for the life of me seem to be able to level the driveway. What position should the blade be in for levelling? Should my toplink be all the way out, all the way in, or somewhere in between? How high would you raise the rear blade off the surface of the drive while doing levelling pass?
    I touched on this above where somewhere in between is the spot you want for finish grading. Not necessarily leveling, so I assume you mean finish grading to get a smooth finish, right. Leveling would mean (to me) to cut off the high spots and fill the low spots. I set the blades so they are about the same, meaning the top link somewhere in the middle to achieve this blade position. Then I drag the box. What this does is the front blade slightly cuts off any standing ridges while the rear blade is smoothing the dirt out. But the front is not aggressively cutting. One important thing to remember is to compact those low spots you filled, or when you go through them with the boxblade, it will sink/cut deeper in those areas unless you've firmed it up by compacting.

    I thought I knew what I was doing. Figured I would lower the 3PT a bit as I felt that I went over a high spot and then raise it a bit after picking up some material from the high spot. Is this generally what the rest of you do also?
    Yes, to a point.
    When you say a "high spot", what do you mean? Like a hump in the road that you want to cut off or is it a gradual rise and fall in the road that you can live with? If it is a hump and you want to cut it off, the best way is to lower the scarifiers and grind up that hump until it is loose to the point where it's level with the rest of your drive. Then drag the box over the loosened soil and drag it away or spread it to a low section. You can also do this in reverse by using your boxblade as a bulldozer blade. Be advised that you can bend the the drag links this way, so be careful. I bent mine but reinforced them so they are super strong now. I use this technique frequently because it produces great results. By bulldozing in reverse, the rear blade cuts off the dirt and leaves a perfect path for your tractor tires to follow. There will not be any humps or bumps that way. Plus, if you are contouring the road, the tractor tires will sit on the contour you just cut. Your blade will remain constant, as long as you don't take too much of a cut and stall the tractor or bend the lower drag links.

    - Dragging material. I've found when I drag material it tends to quickly mix up with the ground I am dragging it over. I'm guessing that my toplink is set to long or my 3PT is set too low and I am doing too much scraping. What is the best position to drag material in so that you are just moving it and not scraping.
    That middle top link position I was talking about where the front blade and rear blade are sitting equally from the ground. So neither one cuts or drags, but they are both the same position. This may or may not be the middle of your top link, but should be somewhere near it. Just depends where the top link ends up with the blades in that position. But the key is to get the blades in that position no matter where the top link is.

    Figured I might as well ask how one adjusts the guage wheel hight if using a landscape rake or a box blade.
    You can adjust the leveling or guage wheels so that the tips of the rake or the tips of the blade barely hit the ground when on a level surface. That way your implement can still work by engaging the ground, but no more that you have it set at. How it works...the wheels now ride on a smoother surface than in front of the blade or rake, so it keeps the implement relative to the smoother surface you have just created. This is much the same principle I was talking about using the boxblade in reverse as a bulldozer. The surface behind is now smoother the the surface ahead and your tractor wheels ride on the smoother surface keeping the boxblade relative to the smoother surface.
    But back to the guage wheels, I don't use mine so much once I've finished grading and smoothing the road. Once it hardens up and is compacted, I just drag the box in the neutral position described above and use "float" on the 3pt. Then it follows the smoothness of the (already) smooth road and just dresses it up. What I use the guage wheels for is spreading a lift of dirt at an even level or amount. So I set the guage wheels to be 1" lower than the cutting blades and grab a boxful of dirt or gravel and spread. I then spread an even 1" lift until the box is empty. I use the fel bucket to move the material to those areas I want to use this spreading technique so I don't lose too much material trying to drag it a long ways.

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