Grapple Rake Grapple for my 555E

[EddieWalker]

After doing allot of research and sending out some PM's, I've decided that what I want is called a Rake Grapple. They are not as common as the standard Root Grapples, Grapple Bucket or the Grapple attachements that you can add to your loader bucket, but they seem more specifically designed for picking up debri, branches and trees.

The big obsticle to overcome is dealing with the bucket that's already on my tractor. It's held in place with pins and the Rake Grapple will be on a Universal Skid Steer Quick Attach System. I spoke to guys at about a dozen differen manufactures and found that some really don't want to deal with anything other then what they sell already. But there are a few out there that don't see this as a very complicated issue and offered some options.

Skid Steer Root Grapples at ExcavatorThumb.Com was very helpful and real good at getting back to me with questions. They don't have the Rake Grapple on their website, but they do have them and he emailed me a picture of one that they make.

I didnt want the full sized grapple on the rake, but instead, the double grapples. Rob mentioned that it would be allot better at holding uneven loads if one side could close more then the other side. This made allot of sense to me, so that is what I ordered.

Total price with shipping for a 72 inch rake grapple with two grapples, quick attach hoses, pins to change my loader to a quick attach and a fork lift attachement with forks came to $3,600

While talking to him, I decicided that forks would come in handy and they probably are never going to be any cheaper then right now.

The order went in today. He said it will take about ten days to build it and get it in shipped off.

I have about two and a half weeks to run my hoses and control valve assembly. According to the the guys over at New Holland, my tractor has 2,400 lbs of hydrauclic preasure, so I need a valve rated at 3,000 pounds.

Rob used this one from Surplus City on his last build that I'll probably order also. First, I'll talk to my hydraulic repair guy and see what he thinks, but this looks like what I'm wanting.

Surplus Center Item Detail

New Holland has two ports on my main hydraulic manifold that are plugged up. The mechanics there said they use one manifold for all their tractors and it's designed for a loader with a four in one bucket. If a tractor doesn't have that feature, they just plug up the openings. How's that for luck?


Now I need to come up with an electric switch that I can control the grapples with. I'm only going to use one stitch to control both grapples as that's what I was told on how to do it by eveyrone I called. They all said pretty much the same thing. When they close, the one that comes into contact with something will stop while the other one will keep on closeing. When it comes into contact, the preasure tightens them both up evenly. This sounds perfect for moving branches and trees!!!!1

Any thoughts on what switch will work on my existitng loader control handle? My guess is that I'll find the right switch and have to carve and mold the existing handle to accomodate the new switch.

Thank you,
Eddie

 

[3RRL]

Hi Eddie,
Good going and what a great price for grapple and forks.
One thing about that Surplus Center valve is that it's only rated for 10 gals/min flow. I would think your TLB has more flow than that (I'm assuming)? You should find that out and then call Surplus Center to see if they have a 12v DC solenoid valve that handles your flow. On the otherhand, perhaps with a manifold like on your tractor, the flow is split and it would be OK to use. Your mechanic should know for sure.
What about contacting your TLB dealer to see what switches fit inside your loader joystick? Perhaps there are some they use for when they have the 4-in-1 bucket application? You could also call that link I provided for the Scorpion joysticks. They have all kinds of switches available to choose from.

 

[AlanB]

Eddie, my C has it built into the joystick already, if I remember right it "twists" to activate that function.

Are you sure the control (as Rob mentioned) is not already there?

Looks neat

I am not following on how you will attach it though, are you going to make your bucket SS compatible? or is that grapple coming with pin mounts, or do you have some form of quick attach on your bucket / loader that I am not familiar with? Will the forks mount the same I assume or are they the forks that hang off the top of the bucket?

I would be real interested in seeing it.

 

[EddieWalker]

Rob,

Thanks, I've been looking at the Scorpian Joysticks, but don't think that I'm going to go that way. I have two buttons on it now and I think that I can work something into the one on the outside edge where my thumb rests naturally. It's never done anything, so it should be a painless modification.

The guy at the hydraulic shop said that it's real important to use the full sized hoses and not to go smaller when going through the control valve. He said this is because it will get super hot if I use smaller hoses. I'm not sure of the size Surplus Center has on their valves, but instead, I'm just going to let him order what I need and rely on his expertise.

He also said that I need another manifold that will make sure the preasure is held in the proper direction. If this isn't done, I can lock up all my cylinders. Again, he knows this stuff way better then I do, so I'm going to just wait and see what he comes up with and pay the bill.

When it gets here, I'll update this with what I have and what it cost.

Alan,

When I was at the auction the other day and played around on some tractors with 4in1 buckets, they all had the twisty type loader control handles. Twist the handle with your wrist to open the bucket. It's a little awkward, but I'd probably get the hang of it after awhile. Mine doesn't have anything like that.

My plan is to install the Universal Quick Attach plate to the end of my loader arms. Then I can add and remove attachments in just a few minutes. The grapple will already have the quick attach fittings, so it will be good to go as soon as I get the plate onto my loader arms. The pallet forks are just like on a regular forklift. They also attach onto the quick attach plate the same as the grapple.

My bucket will have to be modified to accept the quick attachment system. When it gets here, I'll probably just copy how it's done on the other attachments and then start cutting and welding onto my bucket.

I will post lots of pictures when it all gets here and what I do to make it all work. I know you have a simlar machine and thought you might some day want to do something similar.

Eddie

 

[AlanB]

Rob,


I will post lots of pictures when it all gets here and what I do to make it all work. I know you have a simlar machine and thought you might some day want to do something similar.

Eddie

You Betcha I am interested.

Thanks

I am still pondering the 4/1 buckets etc. etc. but here lately keeping things running has taken all my money.

Sidebar, it is nice though, I mentioned (literally in passing as I was plugging a front tire on the tractor) that we probably should get a new pair on the front of the tractor, few too many plugs, and pretty thin looking with big cuts.

The next evening I mentioned to SWMBO that John (equipment dealer we use) had a set in the back I had seen.

Last night saw a huge cut across one of the tires, and the wife says, Oh yeah, I paid for those new tires yesterday with John, he did not know what they were, and I did not know but I told him what you said a price and paid for them so go pick them up.

New front shoes for Babe next week I guess, after I get the roof on

 

[EddieWalker]

Gotta love it when the wife goes out and buys you new tires!!!!!!!!!!

Eddie

 

[GuglioLS]

Hi Eddie,

Looks like you finally found just the right tool for moving all those huge brush piles and trees around your property. If that solenoid valve at Surplus Center meets the GPM flow requirements on your TLB, don't forget you will need the subplate and two Hirschmann wire connectors plus four SAE 6 hydraulic adapter fittings to go with it. Oh and don't forget to wire diodes across the solenoid coils so as to prevent arching across the switches. Maybe your switches already have diodes? I look forward to seeing some action shots of your new rake grapple.

Larry

 

[Reg]

Eddie,
If it was for your Century tractor I would have said get the third function kit, complete with switch integrated into a new joystick handle.
It is POSSIBLE that you could get just that handle with switch and fit it to your 555E loader control. I suspect that a lot of such parts are common and interchangeable.

 

[Reg]

Here's a different thought on loader 3rd function control.
Typically something like a grapple on a loader is controlled by switching (toggle switch to diverter valve) the bucket's roll/dump to grapple open/close.
Maybe same/similar with the thumb on a hoe, or perhaps two foot pedals.

I was mulling this over trying to think of something that would keep the right hand on the joystick and perhaps be a bit more intuitive.
Hmmm, twist-grip - as in motorcycle. (or twist-shift - as in bicycle).
Before you ROFL consider that in many cases the joystick operates a couple of cables that operate the valves.
It shouldn't be THAT HARD to find a twist grip that spring returns to center and push/pulls two cables. Many motorcycles have two cables, one to open the throttle and one to close it, i.e. PULL it closed and not rely on a return spring.
It SEEMS that one could hold onto the stick, keep the usual left/right and forward/back movements for the bucket AND twist right/left for grapple open/close.
When operating the grapple it wouldn't be "in the palm of the hand" the way we're used to, but you could probably resort to that when not opening/closing.

thoughts ?

 

[EddieWalker]

The current thought from both the mechanics at New Holland and the owner of they hydraulic repair shop that I go to, is to have the grapple function replace one of the loader functions. In this case, for the grapple to close, the rake will not be able to tilt. One or the other will work, but not both at the same time.

The way I understand it, due to the large volume that this hydraulic system has, it's very expensive to install all the componts that can handle this. If I go too small, I create massive amounts of heat, which is bad. They said that by doing it this way, I just have to have a button that I hold down and the joystick contol will switch from tilting the bucket/rake to closing the grapples.

At first, I fought this idea, but after talking to each place twice, I see that this won't be that big a deal and it makes it a very simple install. I already have a button on the side of my joystick right where my thumb rests.

They said that the hydraulic preasure would keep the grapples closed when the button is released and the tilt function of the bucket/rake would return. So while I'm carrying the load to the burn pile, I'm not having to hold down the button.

I really don't see this as being all that bad, but it's also not my first choice in how to do this.

Eddie

 

[kennyd]

The current thought from both the mechanics at New Holland and the owner of they hydraulic repair shop that I go to, is to have the grapple function replace one of the loader functions. In this case, for the grapple to close, the rake will not be able to tilt. One or the other will work, but not both at the same time.

The way I understand it, due to the large volume that this hydraulic system has, it's very expensive to install all the componts that can handle this. If I go too small, I create massive amounts of heat, which is bad. They said that by doing it this way, I just have to have a button that I hold down and the joystick contol will switch from tilting the bucket/rake to closing the grapples.

At first, I fought this idea, but after talking to each place twice, I see that this won't be that big a deal and it makes it a very simple install. I already have a button on the side of my joystick right where my thumb rests.

They said that the hydraulic preasure would keep the grapples closed when the button is released and the tilt function of the bucket/rake would return. So while I'm carrying the load to the burn pile, I'm not having to hold down the button.

I really don't see this as being all that bad, but it's also not my first choice in how to do this.

Eddie

What they are selling you is a basic electric Diverter. They are perfect for this setup. If you do a search for "diverter" in the hydraulics section there is lots of talk about them.

 

[EddieWalker]

It's here!!!....... Now what?

 

[EddieWalker]

The hydraulics part of it are pretty simple. I think that I have a grasp on that part of it. What has me spinning my wheels and worried about my head exploding is how to take off the original bucket and mount the quick attach to it. Once this is done, I'll be able to use any and all Universal Quick Attach attachments, but getting it right and strong is the key to this.

Eddie

 

[jake98]

[
I really don't see this as being all that bad, but it's also not my first choice in how to do this.

Eddie[/QUOTE]



Eddie, I just went thru the same ?'s when I installed my grapple. What made sense to me was that if I had the 'third function valves (I guess third and fourth functions)' I would be able to use them for other attachments in the future. Rear remotes they called them. Seperate levers. They come out on the back, on the wrong end for a grapple, and use a different lever(s), but, after using it for a season, I'm glad I did it that way. There doesn't ever seem to be a timing issue when I'm clamping trees or brush, it's a slow moving process, and I now have the remotes I can use for other future attachments. Routing the hoses up to the front was also not much of an issue. Good luck, that looks like a nice grapple. Jake

ps I think the cheaper price of a diverter valve is why some people use that system, but if you can't use it for anything else...

 

[IH3444]

That thing looks like a medivel torture device, and belongs in a road warrior movie.....reminds me of a movie I saw years ago with my nephews, called "The Mangler" You go boy go. I lov it!

 

[EddieWalker]

The 12v, 6 way diverter valve arrived today from Surplus Center. It was $277 and didn't include any instructions of any kind. It's made by Parker, so I'm hoping I can check with my local guy to see what he says about it.

As for the Universal Attachment, I spent some time with a tape measure, level and square working on an idea. I will need to remove the brackets from my loader bucket and weld a Universal Attachment to that, so I'm thinking about using that existing metal for my bracketry.

We'll see.

Eddie

 

[jmc]

Eddie,

Your new grapple looks great!

While I think the standard QA system is a great concept, keep in mind that it was developed for skid steers and not industrial duty TLBs. You may have to do some reinforcing.

John

 

[EddieWalker]

You may have to do some reinforcing.

John,

I agree 1,000%!!!! This is why my head is close to exploding. I've been working around differnet aproaches to making the attachment as strong as possible.

First, I'm not going to weld it, I'm hiring that out. I'm a decent welder, but not great. Sometimes it's cheaper in the long run to hire an expert to do it right the first time.

Second, I'm going to build templates from plywood and have the welder cut them out. I can rought it out on wood, then do a final cut that will be perfect. The welder will have to have a plasma cutter to cut it out of the metal. Probably 3/8's, but I'm still not sure of what type of metal to use.

Any suggestions?

Doing it this way should gurantee the welds are done right. The design will not be set in stone, so if the welder, and I have two that I'm going to talk to, has some suggestions, I'll go with them. The goal is to make it bulletproof and able to last years of regular abuse!!!

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[3RRL]

Eddie,
Can you post some pictures of
a) How your bucket is attached to the loader arms now. Is it pinned on?
b) A close up of the attachment on your existing bucket.

Are basically going to make a QA skid steer attachment that stays on the loader arms then?
I presume you will want it to fit your new grapple and other QA attachments and also your bucket, right?

 

[EddieWalker]

Hi Rob,

I'll take some more pictures and post them tomorrow.

Currently, but bucket is attached by pins to my loader arms.

The QA attachement will be permanent on the loader arms. After I get this figured out, I will have to modify my bucket with a bracket to accept the QU setup. That should be a simple matter of welding on a plate of steel and the brackets that were included with my grapple.

Eddie