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  1. #11
    Super Member 3RRL's Avatar
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    Oct 2005
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    6,812
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    Foothills of the Giant Sequoia's, California
    Tractor
    55HP 4WD KAMA 554 and 4 x 4 Jinma 284

    Default Re: Middle buster vs sub-soiler ???

    From your reply to me, I'd go with using the neighbor's tiller if he''l let you borrow it. It will cost you nothing.
    Till a few inches deep at a time an fel the loose stuff away. Then do it again until you have the hump cut down to where you want. If his tiller is a good one, it should be able to cut through hard clay ground in reasonable passes. It'll be better on your tractor too. Another thought is to have your neighbor do it with his tractor and you follow with yours, clearing up the loose dirt with your fel. A case of beer or a full fuel tank might be all it takes?

    If you are going to buy another implement, I would seriously consider a decent box blade to add to your collection. You can always take out the scarifiers, leaving only one ... or two in to let it dig deep and act sort of like a subsoiler. Then you would have the box to move dirt and do whatever else with it. A boxblade is a wonderful multi-purpose tool if used correctly. I think you can get a medium duty 5 or 6 footer at TSC or Agri-supply for around 5 or 6 hundred bucks? Might be worth considering??
    Rob-
    ...The Older I get...the Better I Used to be...
    Member of the Month

  2. #12
    Super Member Highbeam's Avatar
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    Feb 2005
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    5,039
    Location
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Tractor
    Kioti CK30HST

    Default Re: Middle buster vs sub-soiler ???

    I did a similar sized grading job (actually a few) with my boxblade. I own a subsoiler and I did use it at the end to prepare the new finished grade for planting. I never saw much value in subsoiling soil just for the sake of scooping it into the boxblade. The box has rippers already. I have subsoiled virgin sod and the foot of the SS does fracture the ground and hump it up, but only slices the sod with minimal surface disturbance.

    Borrow the neighbors tiller or his tiller/tractor combo for the initial sodbusting. That top layer will be the biggest challenge.
    Kioti CK30HST, FEL w/toothbar, 60" RC, 60" BB, PJ 10k trailer. Weekend warrior hauling 50 miles each way.

  3. #13
    Elite Member RalphVa's Avatar
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    Dec 2003
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    3,847
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA, USA
    Tractor
    JD 1025, previously Gravely 5650 & JD 4010

    Default Re: Middle buster vs sub-soiler ???

    If you have a toothbar on your FEL, you could point it straight down and break up soil this way.

    Ralph
    The natural gardener
    God's original intent

  4. #14
    Super Member
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    6,553

    Default Re: Middle buster vs sub-soiler ???

    Use the tiller, then the FEL, then the tiller in a larger area, then switch to the back blade to finish.

    jb

  5. #15
    Veteran Member kthompson's Avatar
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    Sep 2008
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    South Carolina
    Tractor
    Kubota M 6800; Kubota B 2710; Gator; Bushhog ZTR; Volvo Mini Excavator EC45

    Default Re: Middle buster vs sub-soiler ???

    Quote Originally Posted by IXLR8 View Post
    MB- $160
    SS- $180
    Both at TSC, have not looked at them in person yet, so not sure of quality differences. Suspect they are made by same company.
    Memory is the metal on the subsoiler is larger but even on King Kutter's site they don't give the specs. The subsoiler does weigh more, 114 pounds compared to 80 for the middle buster. A subsoiler is designed for hard dirt with roots and rocks, a middle buster is not. No idea in your area, but you may find a used one for little cost as most farmers have moved from single to multiple row subsoiler. It you need a subsoiler get one with some shear pin to it or drive slow. I will tell you 14 inch deep is not that deep for a subsoiler here. You may need to find a longer shank if you have needs of one. They were designed to break up the hard pan that some soils will have and those hard pans can be rather deep. The soil I have hard pan build up on is about 14 to 20 inches deep. If there are root or vines you will be running through you may need a culter to cut them as they will wrap around the subsoiler and load it up. But you just changed the cost of the item by a good bit. Lifting it out of the ground and backing up will unload it normally. kt

  6. #16
    Veteran Member kthompson's Avatar
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    South Carolina
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    Kubota M 6800; Kubota B 2710; Gator; Bushhog ZTR; Volvo Mini Excavator EC45

    Default Re: Middle buster vs sub-soiler ???

    I forgot to say, if you have no other need than to loosen the soil to level and and then will have no need for a subsoiler or middle buster, I would use one of the other suggestions above. Will say the little cutters on a box blade are no where near the same as a real subsoiler. Then neither is the price. kt

  7. #17
    Super Member Gary Fowler's Avatar
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    Jun 2008
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    Bismarck Arkansas
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    2009 Kubota RTV 900, 2009 Kubota B26 TLB & 2010 model LS P7010

    Default Re: Middle buster vs sub-soiler ???

    I think I would use the middlebuster and checker board the area about 6-8" deep. Then use the FEL to scoop up the loose soil. Middlebuster again as needed maybe going diagonal to the previous directions. You shouldnt need to plow 12" deep at one pass like a subsoiler since you cant move that much dirt at one time with the FEL anyway. Just plow lightly to loosen things up, If you are really good, you could plow and load at the same time, at least after the first passes since you would likely be just moving soil from high to low points, it should work ok. I dont think I would use the tiller till I got the area level as I wanted it. Then till it up with some mulch or other organic matter since your soil in that area is likely barren of top soil at that point, it will need some top soil replacement. You may even consider saving the first 6 to 8" that you take off and respread it to the area after you finish your cut just like the stripminers.

  8. #18
    Super Member Gary Fowler's Avatar
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    Bismarck Arkansas
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    2009 Kubota RTV 900, 2009 Kubota B26 TLB & 2010 model LS P7010

    Default Re: Middle buster vs sub-soiler ???

    You might want to use the tiller after you complete your leveling job to loosen up the soil and or mix in some of your saved topsoil with the native soil that is left, otherwise you will likely have a very poor soil condition for growing for several years.

  9. #19
    Veteran Member
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    Aug 2007
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    Mid-Coast Maine

    Default Re: Middle buster vs sub-soiler ???

    Well, we tried to put my neighbors tiller on my tractor this weekend.. didn't work so good. His tiller is a 7ft model, he doesn't remember who made it, what is left of the paint is sort of an olive green. He thinks he paid in the neighborhood of $3800 17 years ago. It is built like a TANK, weighs a ton, my CK30 really didn't want to lift it, never mind going tilling with it, so I won't be using it on my tractor. Plan now is to try using the toothbar in the spring when the ground is wet and soft, using the backhoe to break things up if necessary. Will save any good dirt I have... which is not much. Get things shaped basically as I want them, bring in some good loam to go with any good dirt I have left, get neighbor to till the dirt/loam in the areas I am working on, rake level, plant grass, water, mow.
    Thanks for all your inputs and suggestions, looks like I won't have to buy any new toys... er tools to get this done.
    Jim

    - '01 Husqvarna W4814- 48" walk behind lawn mower.
    - '04 John Deere Z-Trac 727A- 54" ZTR
    - '13 Kioti DK40 HST - KL401 loader, DK40 72" QA bucket, LK3054 60" QA bucket, toothbar for 60" bucket, dual rear remotes, 7ft 6 way rear blade, 78" ETA Box Blade, Woods BH-90x backhoe, loaded rear tires, Kioti Canopy.

  10. #20
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    Prudence Island, RI
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    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default Re: Middle buster vs sub-soiler ???

    Quote Originally Posted by IXLR8 View Post
    Well, we tried to put my neighbors tiller on my tractor this weekend.. didn't work so good.
    Couldn't lift it eh? I think this is all a part of an elaborate charade to convince Mrs IXLR8 that you need a DK. Don't worry, we'll keep your secret.

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