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  1. #1
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    Default 4 in 1 bucket , root grapple, or stump grapple ?

    Hello all. I am looking for the best attachment for pulling out old overgrown shrubbery and loading to haul it off. I currently don't have a tooth bar but am going to get one at the same time I order the attachment. My questions are should I choose the same size grapple/4 in 1 bucket as my current bucket (60") or should I go with a larger size - 66" or 72" instead? Also, if I choose a 4 in 1 bucket, should I mount the toothbar on it or my standard bucket? I like the idea of a 4 in 1 bucket but question weather I should go with a larger size given that I am only working with 30 hp in a TC33. Any help making this decision is appreciated.

  2. #2
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    Prudence Island, RI
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    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default Re: 4 in 1 bucket , root grapple, or stump grapple ?

    I own both a grapple and a 4n1. I've used a bucket with a toothbar too. I do mostly the sort of land clearing that you are describing. For my money there is no comparison and the grapple wins out easily for this type of work. A 4n1 is a very useful construction tool but it is frankly lousy as a brush clearing implement mostly because it clamps from the bottom and therefore has a hard time getting a very big bite or holding on to the material very well. A 4n1 will also cost you about twice what a good grapple will cost. A stump bucket with a grapple attachment is a pretty specialized tool that would be in my opinion more effective than a 4n1 at your tasks but less effective than a standard root grapple.

    Regarding size: you would definitely want a grapple that is smaller than your standard bucket for brush clearing. You have a 30hp tractor which would definitely not need anything bigger than a 48 inch grapple. I have a 48 inch grapple on my 40hp Kioti. Basically, any tractor from 20hp up to about 50hp with loader lift capacity up to about 3000lbs would do fine with a 48 inch root grapple. There is no advantage and several disadvantages to a larger grapple for this type of work. Disadvantages of the larger grapples are first cost and then extra weight which decreases your net lift capacity. A 48 inch grapple weighs about 350-400lbs. A larger size gets you into the 500-700lb range which really cuts your net lift capacity. Finally, a larger grapple is not only less manuverable but makes it more difficult to focus your breakout force on a small area (such as a root). In a nutshell, larger (wider) grapples are construction cleanup tools or appropriate for large skidsteers, compact utility tractors do best with smaller grapples.

    If you read on TBN you will see that there are basically two options for getting a grapple. First is to go to a local tractor dealer who will likely source one from WRLong or ATI. Both fine grapples but rather pricey due to the dealer middleman. The other option is to buy directly from one of the smaller manufacturers where you will save money but need to arrange shipping issues and deal with hydraulics yourself. Lots of help here on TBN for the hydraulics issue though. A very good 48 inch root grapple can be purchased from Markham welding for about $1000 delivered these days. There are other options but that seems to be about the best deal out there right now.

    If you really have just a few bushes to get rid of (rather than larger land clearing tasks), a smaller 4n1 bucket would work too and does have the advantage that you can just always leave it on to serve as the primary bucket. I'd put a 60 inch 4n1 and nothing bigger on your 30hp tractor again due to weight considerations. 4n1s are quite heavy.

    Good luck.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Charlesaf3's Avatar
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    Richmond VA & Martha's Vineyard, People's Republik of Massachusetts
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    Kubota B3030, Kubota M59 TLB

    Default Re: 4 in 1 bucket , root grapple, or stump grapple ?

    I agree with Island tractor (no surprise, as he is pretty much TBNs "grapple guru"

    I'd add I don't think your tractor is big enough to use a 4n1 properly, and it would be a bit of a waste.

    I use the 48" grapple on my M59 (4k lift at pins) with no particular issues. For ground clearing raking I'd go for a bodozer or similar, but for you I'd say a 48" grapple is probably going to be ideal
    ----------------------------------------
    Charles

    Kubota B3030
    Kubota M59 w/hydro thumb
    Neat stuff - ATI Preseeder, Hydraulic PHD, Wallenstein BX62r Chipper, Millonzi Grapple, CA 4n1 Bucket. Delta Hook Rear QA system.
    Too many other random attachments to list (or to own, per my wife) and a really bad tool addiction. But at least I haven't bought a dump truck or bulldozer. Yet.

  4. #4
    Super Member dfkrug's Avatar
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    Feb 2004
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    5,330
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    NorCal
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    05 Kioti CK30HST w/ Prairie Dog backhoe

    Default Re: 4 in 1 bucket , root grapple, or stump grapple ?

    Quote Originally Posted by global312 View Post
    Hello all. I am looking for the best attachment for pulling out old overgrown shrubbery and loading to haul it off. I currently don't have a tooth bar but am going to get one at the same time I order the attachment. My questions are should I choose the same size grapple/4 in 1 bucket as my current bucket (60") or should I go with a larger size - 66" or 72" instead? Also, if I choose a 4 in 1 bucket, should I mount the toothbar on it or my standard bucket? I like the idea of a 4 in 1 bucket but question weather I should go with a larger size given that I am only working with 30 hp in a TC33. Any help making this decision is appreciated.
    I was surprised at how useful a 4-in-1 was on a tractor even smaller than
    your TC33. The bkt on my B21 was about 54" wide and weighed over 500#.
    The tractor was only 2000#, and with FEL, hoe, and 4n1, a bit over 4000#.
    That is over 1000# less than my main machine, which has a light duty 60"
    4n1 on it. Both machines have hoes on them, which is very beneficial here.

    When it comes to uprooting brush, a 4n1 can grab and pull up on the stems
    better than a grapple, but a grapple can haul piles of brush around better.
    Teeth on the 4n1 would be a bonus....you would still have the other 2
    edges for scraping on flat ground or pavement, or grabbing the stems of
    shrubs/weeds.

    For the TC33, I would get a 4n1 narrower than 60" to keep the weight down.

  5. #5
    Gold Member dangerdoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4 in 1 bucket , root grapple, or stump grapple ?

    Quote Originally Posted by global312 View Post
    Hello all. I am looking for the best attachment for pulling out old overgrown shrubbery and loading to haul it off. I currently don't have a tooth bar but am going to get one at the same time I order the attachment. My questions are should I choose the same size grapple/4 in 1 bucket as my current bucket (60") or should I go with a larger size - 66" or 72" instead? Also, if I choose a 4 in 1 bucket, should I mount the toothbar on it or my standard bucket? I like the idea of a 4 in 1 bucket but question weather I should go with a larger size given that I am only working with 30 hp in a TC33. Any help making this decision is appreciated.

    I have a 4n1 with teeth. It is great for digging and dumping dirt. It will grab a bush and pull it out but you can't see the bucket from the seat of the tractor so it is kind of hit and miss. You can use the teeth to rip out the brush but once you have a pile, it is difficult to pick it up with the 4n1.

    I have a grapple, it works great for moving piles of brush but will not clamp onto a bush to pull it out of the ground.

    The best solution depends on how big the bushes are. If they are huge, a tooth bucket to dig them out may be better than using the 4n1 function to try to pull them out. Or use a chainsaw to take them to the ground then the grapple is the best tool to get them up and moved.

    I also have a bush hog, if I can drive over it, the bush disappears and I don't need the grapple, teeth or 4n1.

  6. #6
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    Prudence Island, RI
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    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default Re: 4 in 1 bucket , root grapple, or stump grapple ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dangerdoc View Post
    I have a grapple, it works great for moving piles of brush but will not clamp onto a bush to pull it out of the ground.
    To get a bush out of the ground with a grapple you stick the bottom grapple tines under the bush and snag the roots then curl or drive forward to pop it out. Very efficient.

    For a larger thicker bush you can also come over the top with the grapple fully "dumped" and then close the grapple over the top of the bush followed by a curl to pop it out. Works on bushes of certain sizes.

    I too have used the clamp technique with a 4n1 but if the bush is too big you end up just ripping off some branches and if the bush is too small you end up amputating the top when you close/clamp the bucket. Yes, the technique works but I'd opt for the grapple most of the time.

  7. #7
    Platinum Member
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    Central Illinois
    Tractor
    Many JD

    Default Re: 4 in 1 bucket , root grapple, or stump grapple ?

    I have a 4in1 on my 32hp, Deere 3320 and love it. I have moved huge piles of brush and very large logs with ease. It is also great for dirt work. It will not hold as much as a material bucket but it will pinch up that last little pile of dirt or rock with out pushing it around. It does take practice to get that last bite or pick up brush with out digging a divit but it can be done easily. I have never used a grapple but am sure they would be great for brush only work. A 5' 4in1 is just right for a 32 horse tractor.

    Dan

  8. #8
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    Default Re: 4 in 1 bucket , root grapple, or stump grapple ?

    Thanks for all of the great information. Ultimately, I think I would have use for both attachments... but I would like to have a backhoe too! I will just have to decide which one to get first. The backhoe will have to wait a while.

  9. #9
    Gold Member dangerdoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4 in 1 bucket , root grapple, or stump grapple ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DanD78 View Post
    I have a 4in1 on my 32hp, Deere 3320 and love it. I have moved huge piles of brush and very large logs with ease. It is also great for dirt work. It will not hold as much as a material bucket but it will pinch up that last little pile of dirt or rock with out pushing it around. It does take practice to get that last bite or pick up brush with out digging a divit but it can be done easily. I have never used a grapple but am sure they would be great for brush only work. A 5' 4in1 is just right for a 32 horse tractor.

    Dan

    I never could carry much brush with the 4n1, it always pinched out of the bottom as I tried to close the bucket.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Charlesaf3's Avatar
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    Richmond VA & Martha's Vineyard, People's Republik of Massachusetts
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    Kubota B3030, Kubota M59 TLB

    Default Re: 4 in 1 bucket , root grapple, or stump grapple ?

    I was going to say, I love my 4n1, but for dirt work. For brush or logs its pretty useless compared to the grapple.

    I also find, like island tractor, it cuts things in half if they are too small - like brush. I do use the 4n1 for ripping out small trees.

    And I still can't see using it on my 30hp tractor. Which is great, but a 4n1 would take up so much of the loader lift it seems like it would lose most of its effectiveness. The grapple is nice and light, so you have more force to apply to what you are doing.

    For dirt work, the 4n1 is wonderful
    ----------------------------------------
    Charles

    Kubota B3030
    Kubota M59 w/hydro thumb
    Neat stuff - ATI Preseeder, Hydraulic PHD, Wallenstein BX62r Chipper, Millonzi Grapple, CA 4n1 Bucket. Delta Hook Rear QA system.
    Too many other random attachments to list (or to own, per my wife) and a really bad tool addiction. But at least I haven't bought a dump truck or bulldozer. Yet.

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