Front-End Loader Rototiller, Flail Mowers & Front End Loader Questions (relationship)

[e.myers]

Have all but decided to purchase a Kubota L4400 with hydrostatic Drive.
I recognize that the tractor is light, and since I intend to do a LOT of front end loader work, I'm looking for a way to maximize my ballast. FWIW, It's doubtful that I'll ever lift anything heavier than full buckets of red sand clay.

Some of you already know that I'm in the process of building an MX track for my boys and intend to farm about 5 acres of land that have been cleared of planted pines and stumps.

The MX track will require regular tilling daily when they ride, probably 2 times during the week + weekends if we're not traveling somewhere (which is rare... max once per month. In between tilling, I'll be moving dirt for jumps, whoops etc.

So, I'm thinking that for the most part, I'll just leave the tiller attached to the back of the tractor and use that for ballast for the front end loader.

1. Do I still need Ballast in the tires? Would it even be worth trying this without the tire ballast?

Then there is the question of tillers. It's been suggested to me a particular John Deere tiller is what I want (prior to this discussion) but the land pride brand is what I can get 0% financing on, so unless there's a reason to not use that brand it's what I'm leaning towards.

1. I need a tiller that will dig as deep (8" plus ideal... most I see are 6") as possible and still work with the 45 hp (43net hp) tractor and 36 hp pto.
2. Tiller needs to be durable enough to handle weekly use (again, as much as two times per week for a couple hours each day on average) in red clay. Sometimes I'll be tilling when wet/muddy to try and help things "dry out" if this matters some how.
3. The fluffy stuff is better on top for my purposes, so what I'm seeing (at least in the Land pride Catalog) is that I probably want to go with the reverse rotation type tiller. Any arguments for or against?
4. Don't know what width I need. Think I need one that is at least the width of my tractor but not certain. I've seen these farming operations that have these neat raised beds (sometimes covered in plastic mulch) where the aisles between the beds are permanent and the width of the tractor tires. The aisles look like they are planted in some sort of cover crop (dwarf white clover or a grass etc), so the beds and the aisles remain permanent. I THINK this is kind of how I percieve the farming part of my operation happening. Really thinking cut flowers more than vegetables. Then theres the grapes, fruit trees etc. Thinking between the grapes I could also do some sort of cover crop with the whole aisle thing described above and then cut the part not where the tires run and use for mulch around the grapes.... not sure.
Anyway, if the tractor tire areas (aisles) are to remain permanent then I don't see how my tiller can be the full width of the tractor... unless some of the blades could be removed. Don't even know if any of this makes sense.
Problem is for the MX aspect of things, the wider the tiller the better. For the farming side of things (as I'm visualizing it anyway) whatever size that would fit between the inside of the wheels seems to make the most sense. Or maybe there is some implement other than a rototiller I need to think about for the raised bed portion of the farm later down the road... don't know.
5. So, is there a particular type of tiller that I need to look at that has removable tines? If so, how wide can I possibly go with a rotary tiller?
6. Also thinking that I may get a flail mower rather than a bush hog... may need both, not certain. But I think I can run a wider flail mower with the L4400 than I can bush hog. I like the flexibility of the flail mower, just not certain how that will work when it comes to making hay. My understanding is that the flail chops stuff up very fine, and I THINK that for making hay (never done it obviously..... primarily need it for mulch/compost etc) that wouldn't work. Can anyone explain?

OK, enough for one night....

 

[IslandTractor]

You have a lot of questions buried in there and I won't touch on all of them but will pass on my experiences. I use a 40hp tractor with a 6ft KK tiller and a 6ft flail.

On the subject of tire filling and ballast. In general I'd say it is a good idea especially with a Kubota to increase tractor weight. The tiller will provide a good amount of ballast though so you don't absolutely need extra ballast if you are just moving dirt. If you are digging or clearing brush then you'll find that using only the tiller may not be enough. My tractor is considerably heavier than yours and I wish I'd already gotten the ballast added but I've been able to work without it so far. I had no trouble tilling without added ballast. Of course mowing does not require ballast either.

Regarding the size of tiller, I'd say you need a six footer to cover your track. Use a bedder to form your rows for farming after you've tilled.

For your MX track, if you are really intending to till twice a week then you don't need a deep tiller as the soil will be so loose that each time you till you'll get it deeper even with a standard tiller. Running a six inch till depth multiple times will get you lower than six inches.

I use a flail mower and generally it does mulch more than a rotary mower (bush hog). For a real haying operation however you'd want a disc mower. I find that if I wait until the grass is about three feet or more tall that even my flail mower cannot mulch the hay even with multiple passes and I end up with a layer of mulch over the field. I suppose that is good if you want to collect the hay (I don't). With more regular mowing (1ft or so) the flail does a pretty good job of mulching.

 

[tatra805]

looked up MX track just to be sure we were talking about the same thing...

I do see a point why a tiller is usefull, but how much time you want to spend on tilling it, twice a week... My experience, tillers are not fast...

I would recommend you a drag type scarifier or cultivator for weekly maintenance and shedule the tilling once a month or so.

After tilling a first time i am sure these will loosen the ground enough and you'll be doing it in a fraction of the time.

Seat time is nice and we all like it but ineffeciency is boring and frustrating in short time.

You can look at horse arena drags or be a little inventive yourself.

Eg, if you have a bladebox and play with your toplink setting (hydraulic was best investment for me) you can have the teeth ripping and the box spreading. Attach some old wheels behind it to even spread it more nicely and evenly.
Bladebox will come in handy making the jumps etc and leveling things out (eg camber turns etc) I would not want to maintain a track without one.

I am sure dealers rather sell you a top spec tiller, but believe me groundspeed is your enemy.

Another thing, drags work through mud where tillers can clog depending on your ground type.

just my 2 cents.

 

[rambler]

I am a very firm believer that any compact tractor with a loader should have liquid ballist in the rear wheels, period. I think many here will get tired of my repeated story on that, but I'm a farmer with several 1000 hours of tractor seat time per year on many small to large tractors. The most dangerous tractor experience I've ever had is with a receint compact tractor I got without weighted tires. Yikes! Get the tires loaded, and use the tiller for extra weight when you are really working with the loader.

My limited experience, tillers are for mid-depth soil working, not deep like 6 or 8 inches.

Plow, subsoiler, ripper, chisel plow is for 7-12+ inches deep.

Field cultivator, disk, tiller are for 3-5 inches deep.

Harrow/ drag is for shallow 1-3 inches deep.

Packer is for firming up the soil, 1/2 inch.

I'm not sure why you would want to go 8 inches deep with a tiller, or what you would gain. It will be a very slow ride to dig that deep. After the first time anyhow, why would one need to go any deeper than 3 inches with a tiller?

I too wonder if some of that horse areana type drag/ renovator equipment might work out better for keeping the bike path in good shape. I donno, but would look into it.


A reverse rotation (scrapes dirt towards the front of the tiller as you drive forward) will hook on roots & stumps much worse. You're going to have a tough time of it until the roots get manageable. After that, I see no difference as to which you end up using. But - yikes until you get rid of/ chopped up the roots & branches in the soil!

I'm not familar with raised beds, so have no opinion on what you need for that. I understand your question, just don't know.

I run a 5 foot tiller with my 27 hp tractor. It works great at a couple inches deep. It is a real, real heavy load going through sod or hard ground. On 40 hp tractor, I'd sure not want bigger than a 6 foot tiller. If you really plan to go 8 inches deep, wow don't get bigger than 6 feet!

Do you plan to bale the hay, do you plan to sell any for hay, or do you only want to rake together fresh choppings for multch? Will this be all grass, or any clover/alfalfa involved?

To make dry hay bales to feed to critters, you need a different cutting implement. The hay should remain long stemmed and be handled gently. You want to keep the leaves on it, not beat it to death & strip all the leaves (the nutricious part) off.A baler will gather 4 inch plus stuff - anything shorter tends to fall through the cracks and not get into the bale. So neither a brush hog nor a flail mower as you are looking at will make good hay or something that can be baled.

I donno what you need for multch. Green stuff piled up would rot I'd think, you'd need to make stuff that dries out and can be gathered somehow? Mushed chopped up clippings won't lay in the sun & dry out well. Again multch I don't know much about, not sure what you are trying to get, so I won't say much. Hay & baling I understand - you'll need a different cutter for making real hay.

I think the problem you are running into is that converting your forest to a hay medow field takes a different set of implements & real power, vs just maintaining the acres once you have them in shape, will only take lighter tools & tractor. I'd consider hiring out the intial steps that will likely damage your equipment, and once the ground is in reasonable shape then maintain it with your tractor & equipment. There is no one universal tool that does everything, from big to small. As you ask the questions, we give you answers that fit the question - if you ask about the stumps & land leveling you get one set of answers; when you ask about working a garden & maintaining a nice field you get different answers.

These are very different tasks, and it will be tough to get a univeral tool that does it all.

You only need to remove the stumps, and get the remaining bits to decay once. You only need to level out the ground once. You only need to work up hardpan soil once. Will it pay to get implements that do this and over-stress your tractor; or should you just get the maintaining type implements that you will use year after year?

I'm a corn/soybean/ bit of hay & oats farmer in the midwest, so my thoughts & ideas might not really fit what you are trying to do, or your conditions. Just some thoughts, use what is helpful, discard what doesn't apply.

--->Paul

 

[jenkinsph]

Well whatever tractor you get I would go with a forward tine tiller capable of 7 to 8 inch depth with a slip clutch.
I would add top and tilt to the tractor for sure to aid in working the dirt, which from what I can tell will take alot of your time. It may be worthwhile to go to a Deere or Case construction dealer and look at a landscape loader with rear hydraulic boxblade to get an idea of where you need to be optimally. You may even find you can buy a used one at a fair price too. You can use a tiller behind these tractors too as they are equipped with an independent pto. I think the new ones are more than you want to spend but check into a used unit in good shape and ask the dealers about the financing before you pull the trigger. The Deere model I am referring to is a 210 LE, the Case model was a 480 I think. Either of these landscape loaders will out do anything mentioned so far as far as the dirt track is concerned and the hydraulic rippers on the boxblade can rip thru and find any stumps and roots you may find.

I brought up these landscape loaders because the more I read about your needs I get concerned about how much time the small tractors would require on an ongoing basis. It would seem a larger used implement would allow more time for you to spend with the family.


Steve