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  1. #41
    Veteran Member orezok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,120
    Location
    Mojave Desert, CA
    Tractor
    Kubota B7800

    Default Re: Ground Plane or Box Scraper?

    I have all three and use all three to maintain my roads. The dirt road off the paved highway has a constant slope of 4%. The unfortunate problem with roads in the desert is that they are always lower than the surrounding land. This means that all the water drains into the road which is a big trough, hence a lot a water running from a small amount of rain. Four percent doesn't sound like much, but when water runs over desert sand at 4% it quickly erodes. The second problem I have is it is part loose sand and part caliche. The sand erodes quickly, the caliche stays.

    After every rain, which fortunately only occurs once or twice a year, all three implements are put into use. The road is superelevated, that is it drains to one side as there are no neighbors across from me. This both minimizes the erosion in the middle of the road and makes the silt removal easier.

    First passes are with the rear blade, angled and pitched to throw the silt up and out of the low side. Next comes the box blade to reestablish a constant superelevated slope. Final finish is with the land plane to get a nice smooth driving surface again.

    Due to the caliche, I usually have to wait 1 to 3 days after a rain or it's too gooey. If I wait more than 4 days, it hardens into "concrete" which my 7800 won't even rip.

    It can be a real PIA if it rains on Saturday - Sunday as the timing is so critical.

  2. #42
    Veteran Member Gordon Gould's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,096
    Location
    NorthEastern, VT
    Tractor
    Kubota L3010DT, Dresser TD7G Dozer

    Default Re: Ground Plane or Box Scraper?

    Quote Originally Posted by djradz View Post
    Not having a plane, I can only base my two cents on the numerous pictures that other have posted, and thus the basis for my suggestion that a rear blade be the choice, if only one implement is to be purchased.

    Every one of the pictures shows an extremely flat road, with little or no crown. Also, often it appears the planes let some gravel fall to the outside, which seems to establish a little berm, which also helps to hold water. Thus, more frequent grading it required, as potholes will develop. If more of a crown was established, it would seem less grading would be required. Again, from the pictures, it does not seem the plane (or a box blade) can be angled, so creating a crown would appear to be more diffiicult, and why my vote is for the rear blade first.
    I wont argue with your choice of a rear blade first. Everyone will have different ideas there. However on the picture of my road section you are right - there is no crown. That is on purpose. The road is flat (not level) and pitches to the low side (left). Water flowing off the right side has no where to go except the shallow ditch which cant be deeper because of ledge. So I want all the water to go left. The gravel outside the runner mark is not a berm (it might look like it). It is loose gravel the flowed down the slope on the left side of the road. You dont see that on the right because the edge is flat. Not getting a planer blade because you think it leaves a berm is a huge mistake. If you are saying a rear blade doesnt leave a berm you are wrong. It depends on the operator doesnt it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -lowerrd2-jpg  
    Last edited by Gordon Gould; 01-11-2011 at 06:57 AM.
    "If you're not making any mistakes then you're not doing anything"

    L3010DT, Farmi JL290 Winch, ATI Grapple, BearCat 5" Chipper, 6' Rear Blade,
    7' Sickle Bar, 5' Land Plane Grading Scraper, Dresser TD7G Dozer

  3. #43
    Elite Member
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    MtnViewRanch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    7,563
    Location
    4000\' mountains of Southern California
    Tractor
    Mahindra 7520, Mahindra 3215HST, Case 580 extendahoe, Case 310 dozer, Parsons trencher, Cat D6,

    Default Re: Ground Plane or Box Scraper?

    If a person understands how to use implements in different ways, a lot of different results can be obtained with that one implement. I can bring material to the middle of the road with my landplane/grader blade quite easily if desired. Just takes a little adjusting of the side link. My blades are set at an angle as most of the OEM grading blades are and they are always trying to move the material sideways to start with. Raise that side just a bit and you have more material being deposited on one side vs the other. Have that side towards the center of the road and you are now building a crown in the road.

    I can say similar things about all the road building/maintaining implements. If I had to, I could get by with just one, actually any of them, but some are better than others for accomplishing different tasks that may need to be done. And when I say better, I mean that one may do a certain task faster and easier than one of the other implements available. Not that any of them get better end results, just that the desired result may be able to be obtained quicker and easier with a different implement. Does any of that make sense to anyone?

    When a person asks what is the best implement to maintain a road, the first implement in my mind is a landplane/grader blade. To me that is the best implement to maintain a road overall. Not to build a road, not to dig ditches down the side of a road, but to maintain a road, it is the easiest implement to use with the best and quickest desired results. Does it work for everything, no, and it is a bit specialized, but they sure do work good.

    Just my opinion based on my usage and others that I have seen and read about.
    Brian
    Top and Tilt Kits by Fit Rite Hydraulics

  4. #44
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    975

    Default Re: Ground Plane or Box Scraper?

    Quote Originally Posted by MtnViewRanch View Post
    If a person understands how to use implements in different ways, a lot of different results can be obtained with that one implement.
    Exactly. A highly skilled operator can turn a mess into a perfect road in not time at all. And a newbee can turn a decent road into a mess in that same short time!

    As with most implements, the better and more expensive ones do the designed tasks quickly and easily. To my mind, scrimping on a road tool is false economy as an unpaved road can go from bad to impassible in remarkably little time if not maintained.

  5. #45
    Elite Member
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    MtnViewRanch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    7,563
    Location
    4000\' mountains of Southern California
    Tractor
    Mahindra 7520, Mahindra 3215HST, Case 580 extendahoe, Case 310 dozer, Parsons trencher, Cat D6,

    Default Re: Ground Plane or Box Scraper?

    Gordon, have you found that you make use of the end gate on your landplane/grader blade? I have thought about adding one to my blades, don't know if it would be worth the effort though. Sure could move a lot of dirt having that rear gate. On my big blade I would be able to move about 4 cubic yards. Actually I'm not sure the tractor would drag that much, but the implement would be able to hold that much.
    Brian
    Top and Tilt Kits by Fit Rite Hydraulics

  6. #46
    Veteran Member Gordon Gould's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,096
    Location
    NorthEastern, VT
    Tractor
    Kubota L3010DT, Dresser TD7G Dozer

    Default Re: Ground Plane or Box Scraper?

    Quote Originally Posted by MtnViewRanch View Post
    Gordon, have you found that you make use of the end gate on your landplane/grader blade? I have thought about adding one to my blades, don't know if it would be worth the effort though. Sure could move a lot of dirt having that rear gate. On my big blade I would be able to move about 4 cubic yards. Actually I'm not sure the tractor would drag that much, but the implement would be able to hold that much.
    While grading a road without any grass the tail gate does very little if anything.
    But I have found two things it adds. The first is during normal road maintainance. I have the tail gate set to hang behind the stop pins.When I go down the edge I typically cut a straight line in the sod. The sod clods get trapped by the tail gate and get ground up as they tumble in the gravel. When they finally go under the tailgate they are loose fluffy grass rather than clods. If I get to much and it starts to restrict the gravel flow I lift the planer to empty it, pull forward, then back against the clod pile to push it off the road. The stop pins keep the tail gate acting as a blade when moving in reverse.
    The other one is when I add gravel to a road. I swing the tail gate up and over so that it is hanging inside the stops. Then it traps alot of material like a box blade and makes the initial spreading and leveling operation easier and faster.
    I've only had it for one season so I am still learning. It is a great tool as you know.
    "If you're not making any mistakes then you're not doing anything"

    L3010DT, Farmi JL290 Winch, ATI Grapple, BearCat 5" Chipper, 6' Rear Blade,
    7' Sickle Bar, 5' Land Plane Grading Scraper, Dresser TD7G Dozer

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