plow down draft (balast addition)

[Welsarth@msn.com]

I'm looking for information regarding the addition resulting from the uplifting of a mold board plow, 3-6 moldboards in the 4-8 MPH range. I know this will very by soil type but was wondering where I might find a source of such information.

The ultimate goal is, using a front suspension tractor, adjust each side to level out the balast of each wheel, hence I need to know just how much additional weight I need to carry on the opposing axle.
Perhaps I should mention this is for a front plow-rear plow combination.

Without compensation, the tractor sort of rocks between the front and opposing rear wheel. I'm guessing a 40:60 four wheel drive tractor might during plowing have a 30:10 and 40:20 weight / axle ratio and want to by softening the suspension on one side of the front axle, level this ratio off to 20:20 and 30:30. (realize these are theoretical numbers and our 40:60 tractor might be 32:68 and closer to 27:5 and 45:23 then our 40:60 tractor.

Despite the great addition to the balast of our tractor with the front plow, we may further need additional weighted balast!

The ultimate goal is to keep soil compaction to a minimum and minimize fuel consumption!

 

[leonz]

I'm looking for information regarding the addition resulting
from the uplifting of a mold board plow, 3-6 moldboards in
the 4-8 MPH range. I know this will very by soil type but
was wondering where I might find a source of such information.





What addition are you referring too?????????????????????????


Are you trying maintain the suck while operating at
higher speeds???????????

What type of plow reset do you have?



I would contact the Weise manufacturing folks about their
improved low friction conservation tillage plow shares.









The ultimate goal is, using a front suspension tractor,
adjust each side to level out the ballast of each wheel,
hence I need to know just how much additional weight
I need to carry on the opposing axle.

Perhaps I should mention this is for a front plow-rear
plow combination.



You would be better off loading the fronts and rears as well
as using front wieghts for the plows.

The Weise plows would be less trouble and have much less friction.




Without compensation, the tractor sort of rocks between the
front and opposing rear wheel. I'm guessing a 40:60 four wheel
drive tractor might during plowing have a 30:10 and 40:20 weight
/axle ratio and want to by softening the suspension on one side
of the front axle, level this ratio off to 20:20 and 30:30.
(realize these are theoretical numbers and our 40:60 tractor might
be 32:68 and closer to 27:5 and 45:23 then our 40:60 tractor.



You dont want to soften the suspension/lose air as it will travel farther
when you do not want it to and you risk breaking an axle.


Your better off setting one speed and one speed only for plowing
as you are dealing with the natural compaction of the soil and and
any lack traction from soil conditions.

The tractor is rocking because of the resistance encountered
while plowing thats all as well as having just air in the
front/rear tires.

The drag created is pulling down and compressing the air in the
tires and the tire lugs are reacting to the loading.





At three miles an hour you are advancing at 264 feet per minute,
15,848 feet per hour.

At four miles per hour you are advancing at 352 feet per minute,
21,120 feet per hour.

At five miles per hour you are advancing at 440 feet per minute,
26,400 feet per hour.

At six miles per hour you are advancing at 528 feet per minute,
31,680 feet per hour.



Why dont you change plowshares to the Wiese convervation tillage moldboard plows?

You will have a 14 inch suck with very low friction while plowing using the Weise
conservation tillage plow shares. You will also eliminate the hardpan layer at the same time.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Despite the great addition to the ballast of our tractor with the front plow, we may further need additional weighted balast!

The ultimate goal is to keep soil compaction to a minimum and minimize fuel consumption!

As far as your ultimate goal of reducing eliminating compaction its a simple issue.

If you look at the www.Northwesttiller.com home page you can purchase a
14 foot wide roto tiller that tills downt to 14 inches in one pass breaking the hardpan layer everytime.

You will not need any added weight with use of the Northwest Rototiller.

Even one of their smaller width models would work well for you as it tills and finishes in one pass and
you can ridge till at he same time forming the beds if you want even more water conservation and
faster seed bloom and canopy creation.

No point in reinventing the wheel.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I'm looking for information regarding the addition resulting from the uplifting of a mold board plow, 3-6 moldboards in the 4-8 MPH range. I know this will very by soil type but was wondering where I might find a source of such information.

The ultimate goal is, using a front suspension tractor, adjust each side to level out the balast of each wheel, hence I need to know just how much additional weight I need to carry on the opposing axle.
Perhaps I should mention this is for a front plow-rear plow combination.

Without compensation, the tractor sort of rocks between the front and opposing rear wheel. I'm guessing a 40:60 four wheel drive tractor might during plowing have a 30:10 and 40:20 weight / axle ratio and want to by softening the suspension on one side of the front axle, level this ratio off to 20:20 and 30:30. (realize these are theoretical numbers and our 40:60 tractor might be 32:68 and closer to 27:5 and 45:23 then our 40:60 tractor.

Despite the great addition to the balast of our tractor with the front plow, we may further need additional weighted balast!

The ultimate goal is to keep soil compaction to a minimum and minimize fuel consumption!

What brand of plow? Moldboard plows in general have fallen from favor in th eUS, and front mounted plows never really got their foot in the door here, so experience is limited at bast. I'd suspect the manufacturers of such plows would have an engineering dept that could/should step up and give technical advice.

Also, I'd expect most of the "high end" AG tire manufacturers would have something worthwhile to add.

 

[RickB]

I have tons of experience with moldboard plows, but none with a fully mounted plow on a front 3PT hitch. I would speculate that an active front suspension is just about the last thing you would want IF the front hitch is solely responsible for maintaining plow depth

 

[Welsarth@msn.com]

Most likely a 3 bottom Kverneland rollover with a number 9 share, the rear ( I can only buy a Kverneland front in rollover) I've owned a 6 bottom rear in the past.
the tractor presents another problem as that, instead of a 40:60, it's a 50:50 so the tractor in addition to the front plough for balast, it's going to need additional balast.
I'm thinking (as of today) instead of thinking in terms of the plow, think in terms of the tractor and the W x H x D forces on the front and rear of the plow. I HAVE NEVER PLOWED A CERTAIN SPEED! The Kverneland was virtually indestructable and I typically drove the JD 4430 just as fast as she would GO!
(There are some good domestic auto resets that I wouldn't hesitate to put behind the tractor to)
Assuming you drive the 200 HP tractor just as fast as she'll go, lets say you have 80% efficiency! THAT MEANS DRAFT IS 160 HP, always, in all soil conditions (not counting changes in slip).
So lets assume we semi mount a 5 bottom in the rear and we have our 3 in the front and 90% draft control, we've a line (if we obtain 50:50) from a point midway of the tractor, the height of the top links to the center of the furrow of the second plow for the front and third plow on the rear.
60 HP for the front, 100 HP for the rear, (note that our 50:50 tractor has 80 HP of lift) from the rears!
I've got to think about this some more and W x H x D forces!
With my 4430 2 wheel drive, I compensated by running a dual and front weights, the tractor in operation with the balast on the one rear!!
Kverneland - YouTube

 

[mooseracing]

Kverneland - YouTube

:drool: :drool: :drool::drool::drool:

 

[Welsarth@msn.com]

I'm working on an Excell work sheet that will let the user go from plow to plow and change tractors and front to rear ratios. Over time for example, you might want to increase your rears and lower your fronts to off set the big ballast adjustments needed to compensate for the for the rear. A little self defeating because as you increase ratios front to rear it increases the torque, taking even more foot lbs off the front off the front. If the tractor is light, you might want to reverse your thinking and have the front pull the rear!:laughing:

Next thought is to utilize something John Deere didn't have, the radial tire.
I'm thinking of doing away with the land side as it causes to much drag and replacing it with a 10" radial, keeping a land side or 2 just in ncase the soil is to friable and the wheel breaks out of the furrow.

Another alternative might be to run a bigger maybe 16" or more tire on say a 30 degree angle that with a bigger foot print won't break out.

 

[art]

Forget the suspension! Get back to a 40 to 60 ratio as the fronts are not meant to carry that kind of weight.

 

[Welsarth@msn.com]

Well! The front plow exists! Front wheel drive tractors, in particularly those in Europe often have just front 3 point hitch, vs both front pto and 3 pt hitch and balast big weight off the 3 Pt hitch!

You can call it 60:40 but a 200 Hp tractor if you are running a wheel in furrow needs around 8 bottoms and a lot of down pressure is applied to the opposite tire, put 3 bottoms on the front and you are just right or left of center and perhaps 32.5:27.5

I have to get into vectors to do the math! Not something i persoonnally deal with every day.

A 5 bottom 20" plough, though is only 10" off center, a fully mounted 5 bottom [plough has the capability of trans ferring a huge number of foot lbs to the rear axles, so countering this over the 10-15 year life of the plough can be a significant savings in fuel and labor!
If you don't counter weight the front of a fully mounted 5 bottom, your more like 90:10 vs 60:40.
You might be able to extend the 3 pt hitch 40" to gain ft lbs but your front plough is 80" off center, requiring a fairly large amount of counter weight rto even come close to having the suspension balance the front!

My goal, perhaps with the tractors automated suspension, is to create total uniformity on all 4's!
And to determine how many bottoms to run in the front!

Once again, I have to delve into vectors to be able to complete the equations!
No matter what you do, a tractors suspension can't balance the front-rear with out the proper balast at the proper distance from the center of the tractor.