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  1. #1
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    Default Help with diaphragm pump

    Was wondering if someonw could help me out with replacing my pump from my orchard sprayer, im running two gun on it . I currently have an IP 100 pump Rittenhouse | IP 100 and want to replace it with an IP d245 Rittenhouse | IP D245 Pump . I know it is a bigger pump but im concern with the hight i will get . Since it is rated at a lower psi. Would it still be capable or reaching the samehight or higher then the ip 100

  2. #2
    Silver Member
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    Jul 2010
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    Rolla, ND
    Tractor
    John deere 2305, X520 and LX188

    Default Re: Help with diaphragm pump

    Quote Originally Posted by 92b16si View Post
    Was wondering if someonw could help me out with replacing my pump from my orchard sprayer, im running two gun on it . I currently have an IP 100 pump Rittenhouse | IP 100 and want to replace it with an IP d245 Rittenhouse | IP D245 Pump . I know it is a bigger pump but im concern with the hight i will get . Since it is rated at a lower psi. Would it still be capable or reaching the samehight or higher then the ip 100
    The "height" that you reach with a hose is a function of nozzle size, hose diameter and length that determines your "friction loss" in pounds-per-square-inch (PSI) at XX gallons-per-minute (GPM), and the pump "rating". The new pump has "only" 290 PSI, but flows 58 GPM. Your old pump flowed 28 GPM at 720 PSI. My question is, what GPM and PSI are your orchard nozzles rated to operate at?? What size hose are you using in inside diameter, and how many feet long is the hose? Since you are using the unit as a sprayer instead of as a high-pressure washer, it seems that 290 PSI wuld be plenty, but I need to know what the "system" is designed to flow at for GPM and PSI. Modern fire figting "fog" nozzles are designed to flow their rated capacity at 100 PSI at the nozzle, if that gives you any idea on how much pressure you need to reach a certain height. It depends on the size and rating of the nozzle you intend to use.

    Get me the nozzle and hose specifications on your two nozzles, and we can figure up "friction loss" to determine what pump rating you need in GPM and PSI.
    The new pump definitely has the VOLUME and 290 PSI seems like enough pressure. However, I need more info as I am not real familiar with orchard sprayer nozzle specifications.

    SC

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Help with diaphragm pump

    thank you so much my friend, I will get all that information tomorrow I really need this before this weekend ,since it will be shipped off to mexico

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Help with diaphragm pump

    I'm using a long tree spray gun like this one,
    Rittenhouse | Long Range Tree Gun
    50mts of hose, but only use about 15-20 meters on each side.
    and i believe I have the 4.0 tips and the 5.5

    Rittenhouse | Long Range Tree Gun Nozzles

  5. #5
    Silver Member
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    Jul 2010
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    118
    Location
    Rolla, ND
    Tractor
    John deere 2305, X520 and LX188

    Default Re: Help with diaphragm pump

    Quote Originally Posted by 92b16si View Post
    I'm using a long tree spray gun like this one,
    Rittenhouse | Long Range Tree Gun
    50mts of hose, but only use about 15-20 meters on each side.
    and i believe I have the 4.0 tips and the 5.5

    Rittenhouse | Long Range Tree Gun Nozzles
    OK

    On the link to the long range nozzle, look at the nozzle flow chart for the height that you want to reach, and compare that (times 2 nozzles) with the GPM and PSI of your new pump.

    Since your tree gun nozzles are designed to flow at a MINIMUM of 200 PSI and your pump only puts out 290 PSI, you do not have much room for friction loss (pressure loss in the hose and plumbing caused by turbulence), before your nozzles would be under-pressured. You have "room" for 90 PSI pressure loss.

    SO -

    Looking at the friction loss chart on this web site, we can determine your hose line pressure loss (in feet) for either 3/8" or 1/2" Ag spray hose (whatever you have)
    To reach a sufficient height, it said you need a minimum of 15 GPM, so we will go with that.

    http://www.minnesotawanner.com/v/vsp...seandreels.pdf

    Print the above file and pull up a meters to feet conversion chart off the internet. Plug in the meters and enter for feet. 15M = 49'2" and 20m is about 65.5 feet.

    Looking at the chart, there is 3 PSI loss/foot for 1/2" hose and 10 PSI loss for 3/8" spray hose (for 15 GPM).

    SO

    15 meters of 1/2" ID spray hose at 15 GPM would be 147 PSI loss for a 290 GPM pump - 147 = only 143 PSI at the nozzle when you need 200+
    20 meters of 1/2" hose would be 195 PSI pressure loss.

    This is just for the hose and you can figure 5 psi loss per fitting from the pump to the hose.

    As currently "engineered", you have way above the GPM capacity for the pump, but the pressure loss for 290 PSI capacity pump appears excessive.

    I do not believe that your nozzles will perform as expected.

    What can be done to overcome this???

    1. A pump with higher pressure at a minimum of 30 GPM.
    2. Go to a 5/8 or 3/4" sprayer hose. For 15 GPM, you better go with 3/4" hose rated at 2X the pressure you intend to use on the system. Re-figure your friction loss for 65.5 feet of 3/4 hose.

    I did not get your hose diameter size, so I am "assuming" it is 1/2 inch? And you what ASSUME means.

    Hope this helps.

    SC

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Help with diaphragm pump

    yeah 1/2 inch hose sorry, this is very helpful thanks.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Help with diaphragm pump

    and btw fudge you sound smart

  8. #8
    Silver Member
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    Feb 2004
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    149
    Location
    St. Clair, Michigan
    Tractor
    2000 TC40D, TnT, 758B BH

    Default Re: Help with diaphragm pump

    Yes, great job on the explanation scollins, very informative. It's been longer than I care to admit since having to ponder the relationship of Friction Loss, Nozzle Pressure, and GPM while operating the Fire Truck on the Fire Ground. That's why we had charts and cheat sheets attached to the cabinet doors of the Engines because at 3 am these calcs can be challenging.

    I wouldn't give up yet 92b16si on your replacement pump. Are you using 2 guns at the same time while spraying, if not your gpm will be less and depending on your pump plumbing arrangement (parallel or series) your FL might also be reduced. Looking at the nozzle performance chart you linked to an increase of pressure from 200 psi to 350 psi only netted a small increase in gpm and even smaller reach. Operating at less pressure at the nozzle, as pointed out by scollins, might not be that bad assuming the nozzles will operate at the reduced nozzle pressures.

    Might be a good idea to contact the gun manufacturer and lay it out for their tech support see what their thoughts are.

    Good Luck.
    Last edited by TO_Bud; 11-30-2012 at 10:46 AM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Help with diaphragm pump

    Thanks guys called rittledhouse going with a 5 diaphragm pump high pressure pump .

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