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  1. #51
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default Re: Which type of grapple is best suited for...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guesseral View Post
    Did you acturally pick that rock up? That one looks pretty heavy.
    Yes, I not only picked that rock up but I yanked it out of the ground. I thought it was a much smaller rock that was sitting on the ground (and hitting my flail mower) as only the very tip was exposed. I dug the grapple tines under it and clamped then lifted. I did realize when the rear of the tractor started to lift despite having a backhoe mounted that it was a big rock but it kept coming so I kept lifting. I forget the exact measurements but I calculated at one point that it weighed something around 2000-2500lbs. I couldn't lift it any higher and the rear tires were barely on the ground. I just moved it about thirty feet (slowly!).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Which type of grapple is best suited for...-img_8139_small-jpg  
    Last edited by IslandTractor; 04-17-2013 at 10:17 AM.

  2. #52
    Veteran Member
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    Erie Pa.
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    Montana R4944, Ford Jubilee, Ford 621, Ford 841

    Default Re: Which type of grapple is best suited for...

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandTractor View Post
    Yes, I not only picked that rock up but I yanked it out of the ground. I thought it was a much smaller rock that was sitting on the ground (and hitting my mower) as only the very tip was exposed. I dug the grapple tines under it and clamped then lifted. I did realize when the rear of the tractor started to lift despite having a backhoe mounted that it was a big rock but it kept coming so I kept lifting. I forget the exact measurements but I calculated at one point that it weighed something around 2000-2500lbs. I couldn't lift it any higher and the rear tires were barely on the ground. I just moved it about thirty feet (slowly!).
    I can imagion you butt cheaks were trying to hold on to the seat during that 30 ride!
    Montana R4944
    Ford Jubliee, Ford 841, Ford 621 industrial with FEL & BH

  3. #53
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default Re: Which type of grapple is best suited for...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guesseral View Post
    I can imagion you butt cheaks were trying to hold on to the seat during that 30 ride!
    Yep!

  4. #54
    Super Member Xfaxman's Avatar
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    Meridian, OK
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    Bobcat V417 Toolcat 5610 F TORO+Loader

    Default Re: Which type of grapple is best suited for...

    Quote Originally Posted by wcampbell47 View Post
    I wrestled with this question for my B3200. I bought Westendorf's Brush Crusher. I can say that I am happy with it for what I use it for. It works well on brush, anything round and anything 4 ft or longer. It is not well suited for small trash stuff. In particular I took on a new house construction clean up job which the Brush Crusher did not work as well as I would have liked it too. Brush - different story. Works great - same for logs. I can pickup a 2x4 off the ground as long as it is 4 ft long. Price and the fact that I did not have to do any plumbing were ++ for me. The front loader hydraulic system automatically adjusts for varying diameters of the material being picked up. My right side clamps hard first, then the left. I have the BC 4000 which is plenty heavy duty for me.

    Attachments for Tractor & Skid Steer: Hay, Snow Plow, Forklift: Westendorf
    I don't understand why you can't pick up something short with just one side?

    Either side should close on anything wider than the back tines.

  5. #55
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default Re: Which type of grapple is best suited for...

    Quote Originally Posted by Xfaxman View Post
    I don't understand why you can't pick up something short with just one side?

    Either side should close on anything wider than the back tines.
    As I recall the Westendorf is not really a traditional grapple but rather a unique device that uses the curl/dump function of the FEL to open and pinch close. It doesn't have a traditional "bucket" or set of bottom tines to hold the load. It works by creating two "rings" around a load when the upper and lower arms are closed together. If you imagine trying to pick up a dowel by creating a ring with your finger and thumb so the dowel was in the middle you can see that when you lift it would slide out unless absolutely perfectly balanced right and left. I suppose you could use the Westendorf to pick up such a dowel if you pinched exactly on the dowel itself rather than creating a ring around it but that level of precision is essentially impossible when operating a tractor FEL.

  6. #56
    Veteran Member pclausen's Avatar
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    JD 5085M, JD 1445, JD GT235, JD LT166

    Default Re: Which type of grapple is best suited for...

    I got a Frontier root grapple and it is great for heavy duty stuff. It is on the heavy side at just under 1000 lbs, but with enough tractor behind it, you can really get some work done.

    Here it is when I first got it mounted



    A small brush load\



    Stacking logs



    Combined with a rear grapple, you can really move logs around



    Stacking whole tree trunks



    Loading logs on trailer



    Moved a lot of trees that day without ever having to leave the cab!



    Front grapple also does a decent job digging up stumps up to maybe 8" diameter. Anything larger I have to use the backhoe with the ripper, or push the tree over first after a good rain, which can get hairy if you don't get it on the first try and/or it is an old tree and limbs start dropping on you.
    JD 5085M w/ H260 MSL Loader, Frontier AV20G Grapple, Frontier AP13G Pallet Forks, Woods BH1050 Backhoe, Woods SG100 Stump Grinder, Woods RM990 Finish Mower, Woods RB850 3 Way Hydraulic Blade, Woods LR108-2 Rake, Maschio H205 Tiller, Bush Hog 3209 Cutter, Vermeer 906 Chipper, Valby SGR76 3pt Grapple, Shaver 601H Post Digger, Tufline 8' Disc Harrow, Vicon Vari-Spreader MK-II 400, JD 45 16-3 Bottom Plow
    2002 Silverado Duramax 3500 Crew Cab LT 4x4
    BigTex 22.5K 25' Gooseneck Trailer

  7. #57
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default Re: Which type of grapple is best suited for...

    Quote Originally Posted by pclausen View Post
    I got a Frontier root grapple and it is great for heavy duty stuff. It is on the heavy side at just under 1000 lbs, but with enough tractor behind it, you can really get some work done.
    As you note, "with enough tractor behind it" is a critical point. You have a utility tractor not a CUT. You also have 3600+lbs of lift capacity so subtracting 1000lbs for grapple weight still leaves you a very healthy net lift load. Even so your grapple is relatively narrow ?60" for your large tractor and the grapple does not overlap the front wheels by much if at all.

  8. #58
    Veteran Member pclausen's Avatar
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    JD 5085M, JD 1445, JD GT235, JD LT166

    Default Re: Which type of grapple is best suited for...

    I think it might be closer to 70", but yes, it does not overlap the front wheels, which I like. I had a W.R. Long grapple with my previous tractor (JD4700 w/ 460 loader), and it was a good match for that tractor. I would have probably gotten another W.R. Long had it not been for the fact that the Deere dealer actually gave me a better price on the Frontier and was able to finance it with the whole tractor purchase.

    The Long did not have independent top claws, but I honestly haven't really noticed a difference. I was always able to balance my load properly with the single claw lid. It did have 2 cylinders on it however, and ran the entire length of the lower jaw. The lower jaw teeth were also closer together, which were good in some situations (like clearing out small bushes), and bad in other situations (like trying to get under roots/stumps). I find with the wider spacing on my Frontier root grapple, I will often "miss" the small brushes when clearing. But overall, for what my uses are, I'm happy with the wider spacing of the teeth on my new grapple.
    JD 5085M w/ H260 MSL Loader, Frontier AV20G Grapple, Frontier AP13G Pallet Forks, Woods BH1050 Backhoe, Woods SG100 Stump Grinder, Woods RM990 Finish Mower, Woods RB850 3 Way Hydraulic Blade, Woods LR108-2 Rake, Maschio H205 Tiller, Bush Hog 3209 Cutter, Vermeer 906 Chipper, Valby SGR76 3pt Grapple, Shaver 601H Post Digger, Tufline 8' Disc Harrow, Vicon Vari-Spreader MK-II 400, JD 45 16-3 Bottom Plow
    2002 Silverado Duramax 3500 Crew Cab LT 4x4
    BigTex 22.5K 25' Gooseneck Trailer

  9. #59
    Super Member TomSeller's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pclausen View Post
    The Long did not have independent top claws, but I honestly haven't really noticed a difference. I was always able to balance my load properly with the single claw lid. It did have 2 cylinders on it however, and ran the entire length of the lower jaw. The lower jaw teeth were also closer together, which were good in some situations (like clearing out small bushes), and bad in other situations (like trying to get under roots/stumps). I find with the wider spacing on my Frontier root grapple, I will often "miss" the small brushes when clearing. But overall, for what my uses are, I'm happy with the wider spacing of the teeth on my new grapple.
    Your grapple is almost a hybrid between a rake grapple and an L grapple. It has very long lower teeth. You are right, that when clearing light brush more teeth and maybe a wide grapple is better. But when doing heavy lifting and getting under big roots and rocks, a narrow grapple is very effective.

  10. #60
    Super Member
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    Frederick County, VA
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    Kubota BX2360 & L4240 HSTC

    Default Re: Which type of grapple is best suited for...

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandTractor View Post
    I could and have lifted nearly identical stumps with my one jaw grapple in the same orientation. Why do you think that could not be clamped by a single jaw?
    You would have had to clamped it in the middle if you had a single lid. Your grapple would have to opened really wide to do that.



    Quote Originally Posted by IslandTractor View Post
    Your logic is odd. If everyone who buys a small single arm grapple reports they are happy with it, what is the argument for a heavier, more expensive, double arm grapple that will cut your net worth and your net lifting capacity???? Do you know anyone who complained about their single arm grapple and sold it to upgrade? I don't.
    Why is my logic odd? I was just saying I had never heard anyone say they did not like their grapple, or at least own up to it. I know you are always talking about your light weight, economy, single lid grapple, how much does it weigh? Do you know of anyone that complained about their 2 lid grapple and sold it to get one with 1 lid?

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandTractor View Post
    If I need to tow a 3500lb trailer, and an F150 does the job just fine, what is the advantage of a more costly and fuel inefficient F350 for that task? Do you need a Hummer to drive to the grocery store to buy a gallon of milk?
    If you have the money to buy a Hummer for a grocery getter why no do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandTractor View Post
    Most grapples were originally designed for skid steers and skid steer tasks. While we on TBN focus on CUTs, the vast majority of grapples are sold for use with skidsteers and that distorts the market. The dealers who sell them are often not very experienced with grapples on CUTs and therefore tend to oversell. Many grapple manufacturers don't even make a 48" single arm grapple because no skidsteer owner would buy one. CUTs do very different work with grapples than skidsteers and the CUT FEL is nowhere near as strong or tough as a skidsteer FEL either in lift capacity or in resistance to abuse. The heavy duty wide grapples used on skidsteers were never designed with CUTs in mind. CUTs are used very differently than commercial skidsteers so it is appropriate to rethink the nature of the CUT grapple. The CUT FEL is longer and more delicate than the skidsteer so is not designed for ramming/bulldozing but rather to lift. A grapple might well need to be made of T1 steel and with 1/2" or bigger tines to withstand the ramming work done with a skidsteer but such overbuilding has absolutely no advantage to a CUT owner. CUT FELs are not designed for ramming/bulldozing and are much more prone to being damaged by torquing forces that would occur if the edge of a wide grapple meets a stump or large rock while pushing.
    I am not talking about a skid steer grapple for a compact tractor. They are too heavy.

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandTractor View Post
    You would destroy your FEL well before you damaged your light duty narrow grapple. My DK40se has a 2700lb lift capacity and I have not destroyed either the FEL or grapple in years of aggressive but appropriate use. I can also lift items that are heavier than someone with the same FEL capacity but a heavier grapple. I can maneuver in tighter areas than someone with a wider grapple. I can put more more per square inch on a root than someone with a wider grapple. I can lift as much or more brush simply because brush is "sticky" and I have more net lift capacity than someone with a heavier grapple. I can also leave more money in the bank or have the money to buy extra implements. My grapple cost me $500 plus shipping. At the time I bought it I would have had to pay triple that amount for a heavier, wider double jaw grapple that would simply never have done anything more than my lightduty 48 and in fact would have limited my ability to dig or lift very heavy objects.
    I don't see how a 48" grapple in most cases will lift as much as a 72" grapple. When I am cleaning up brush with my wide grapple I am not running my tires over it and have to worry about damaging a tire. I am not disputing that a small grapple is not useful. It would be nice at times to have a big one and a small one, just like in your tool box you have different screwdrivers for different jobs. If a 4' grapple is all need on a big compact tractor was it too much for you CK20? Did you wish you had a 3' grapple for it?

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