Snowblower Hydraulic Snowblower Question ???

[Neophyte]

I have asked a similar question before but I have a different spin on it now. I recently saw an add for a used front mount hydraulic snowblower powered off a rear-PTO hydraulic pump.

The big problem with front mount snowblowers powered off the mid-PTO is that they are difficult to attach/detach and you lose the FEL. They are also expensive since they are tractor specific. The big problem with rear mount snowblowers is the awkward nature of doing it in reverse.

I always thought a front mount hydraulic snowblower with a skid steer type quick attach would be the best configuration. This would allow you to quickly swap your snowblower and bucket. The problem with this is that these units typically require anywhere from 11-20 gpm (standard-flow) to as much as 21-60 gpm (high-flow), which is too much for a hydraulic pump on a CUT. However, this could be remedied with a PTO-driven hydraulic pump that is capable of this output.

So my questions are as follows:
1. Are there companies that make a PTO-driven hydraulic pump for a Cat. 1 3PH? If so, where can I get information on them?
2. What is the rough cost for one of these pumps?
3. Will they produce enough pressure and flow for hydraulic snowblowers?
4. What type of PTO HP will I need to power a pump like this?

I appreciate any help. Thank you.

 

[Larry_Van_Horn]

I was thinking about the same thing! Would welcome the responses of the group as well as what could a low flow pump be effective at doing and how much would they cost?
Larry`

 

[gone]

Nortern tool&equipment has what your looking for ,price is 300-389 up to 23gpm. no need for tph the pump mounts on pto shaft,and a simple chain keeps it from turning around. u can also find these at local hyd. stores.

 

[DocHeb]

Although you're right about the pump mounting on the three point independently (with rotation controlled by check chains), a 23 GPM pump will need ~ 23 gallon hydraulic reservoir, which would probably be best mounted on a three point hitch setup. You could just put the pump on the PTO and have the hydraulic tank on the 3pt; putting the pump with the reservoir would then require a PTO shaft to connect to the pump. You'd also need 1" lines running to the front of the tractor to handle the volume/pressure. There is then the question of how to control flow.

 

[Neophyte]

Doc,

I was thinking of mounting an electronic control valve for the hydraulics. This would only require a few wires and a switch to be run to the console for turning the blower on or off. I would prefer this method rather than having additional hoses and a lever run into the cockpit area.

I could use another electronic valve for the chute rotation or I could run the chute rotation off one of the rear remotes. Another option would be to use the bucket tilt controls for chute rotation since tilt controls are not required for the blower.

I imagine you could even run the PTO hydraulic pump off the mid-PTO, assuming it is rated for ~2000 RPM. You could also mount the hydraulic reservoir on the snowblower. This would allow the rear-PTO and 3PH to be used for other things.

Are you sure about the reservoir size? I did not think the reservoir size was in direct correlation to the flow rate. If this were true, a skid steer with a 50GPM flow rate would need a 50 gallon reservoir. Last time I checked, I have not seen reservoirs this large on skid steers. I would think that the reservoir would be in direct correlation to the volume of the system (hoses, cylinders, motors, etc.). What am I missing? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Has anyone on this site ever made something along these lines? If so, I would be interested in seeing pictures. I would also be interested in seeing pictures of PTO hydraulic pumps used for other purposes as well.

Why don't any companies make a package along these lines? It seems like there may be a market for it.

 

[Rowski]

Neophyte

I have dreaming about having a setup like this for a long time. I have mentioned the idea about 2 or 3 years ago on the forum here. Recently I have had more ambition to get the ball rolling. I have found some sites that have some info about hydraulic pumps and motors and flow rates.

I have seem standard flow (11-20 GPM) blower work (on skidsteers). They are a joke as far a how far to throw the snow. The whole point of a snowblower is to get the snow away from the cleared area. My New Holland with a PTO pump is at the bottom end of flow rate in the high flow rate blowers. From my research a pto pump spinning at 540 RPM will not flow much more 30 GPM regardless of HP. The faster the input rpm the larger the flow capacity.

As far as controls go. You can turn the blower on and off by just turning the PTO on and off. I would use my tractor hydraulics for chute rotation and a electric motor for the deflector. The chute rotation should not be used by the PTO driven hydraulics as it will rob the blower of power. I would not use an elctronic flow control valve (to turn blower on and off) as the tend to be expensive for the continous flow. I think a mid mount PTO pump at 2000 rpm would be the ticket. You could still have your hydraulic reservoir on the rear. As far as reservoir capacity it needs to be equal to the GPM. The highest flow skid steer I found was in the lower 30 GPM. I did not look at all of them just a few common ones. If you find a skid steer with 50+ GPM let me know.

I'm all ears!!! I'm very interested in the front blower FEL setup. It would go very well with our 100+ snowplowing (rural) customers.

 

[MossRoad]

<font color="blue"> The chute rotation should not be used by the PTO driven hydraulics as it will rob the blower of power. </font>

A hydraulic cylinder that is capable of turning the blower would be so small that I doubt you'd notice it robbing power from a blower. However, the plumbing would probably be expensive compared to an electric motor. That seems the way to go. And I agree that you need no switch to turn the blower off or on. Just use the PTO.

As far as the size of the reservoir, there are lots of rules of thumb. A little larger reservoir won't hurt, but a smaller one could cause excessive heat buildup in the fluid. It may require some sort of hydraulic cooler.

 

[Rowski]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A hydraulic cylinder that is capable of turning the blower would be so small that I doubt you'd notice it robbing power from a blower. )</font>


I was thinking an orbital motor for chute rotation rather than a cylinder with cables. As far a electrical stuff goes we would need to make sure we don't go over the alternator amp output (heater/defroster, work lights, warning lights, wipers)


What do the larger power tracs run for GPM?

 

[Neophyte]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As far as controls go. You can turn the blower on and off by just turning the PTO on and off. )</font>

Duh! I definitely had a brain cramp on that one and missed the ridiculously obvious. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[JerryG]

I think that you could get by with a 7-10 cu. in. pump on the PTO, if you has a smaller cu. in. motor on the blower. You could no go to small though or you would not have enough power to turn it under load. You would need to check with a hydraulic supplier to make sure.