Brown Tree Saw Vs. Dougherty Tractor Saw - Seeking Input

[christophercale]

Hello All -

This is my first post in the TBN forum. I've been lurking here for quite some time and enjoy reading these forums, lot of great information.

What I'm trying to accomplish:

I have about 35 acres of property in central Texas, around the Seguin area. The property is mainly black soil, heavy clay and flint rock. The property has been neglected over the past 30 years and is overrun with mesquite and huisache. I need to reclaim at least 10 acres in the spring so I can build a house and a drive way. I also need to clear the fence lines and cut random paths for hunting, 4-wheeling, access to the stock pond, etc. Eventually, I would like to clear out all of the huisache and small mesquite. I plan on leaving the large mesquite. The stuff that I need to clear is anywhere from about 1 inch to 6 or 7 inches in diameter. The property is relatively flat with a few very gentle slopes.

I considered hiring a dozer and just ripping everything out by the roots, but I really don't want to disturb the soil for 2 reasons, A) The ground surface is relatively smooth and has a nice covering of grass, B) I want to minimize the amount of new mesquite and huisache growth by not providing freshly plowed soil for germination of the seeds which currently cover the ground.

I also considered a skid-steer with a tree-shear, but I don't own either. Renting would be cost prohibitive (about $1300/wk) considering how much time will be required to complete the job.

The tractor that I own:

I have a Kubota L2850, I think it's a 1985 or '86 model. My dad bought it new and he's giving it me. The tractor is rated 27.5 HP at the PTO. The tractor has a loader bucket. I need to add aux hydraulics for the rear. The tractor has been maintained and runs great.

What I think I want to do:

I have done tons of research online and I'm really leaning towards purchasing a 3-point saw. I like the idea of being able to cut at ground level, then use the grapple to drag out the trees to the burn piles. Since I will be a one-man-show for the majority of this job, being able to cut, drag and stack from the seat of the tractor is very appealing.

The 2 products that I'm looking at are:

Brown Tree Saw: Brown TreeSaw | New Product | Brown Manufacturing | 800-633-8909

AND

Dougherty Tractor Saw: Tractor Mounted Tree Saw

Both units appear to be very similar and cost about the same, around $5500 with the grapple attachment. To me, this is A LOT of money for an attachment, but if it will give me many years of service and allow me to cut what I need to cut, when I want to cut it, it's probably the way to go. I know there is no way that I can clear all of my property for $5500 using any other method.

I called both Brown and Dougherty and spoke to their factory folks. I explained what I needed to do and gave them info on my Kubota. While both of them said that my tractor was on the lower end of the HP rating for their cutting units, they said that the units would work fine considering the size of trees that I'm cutting (2 to 7 inches). They said that I could lower the feed rate of the saw into the larger trees if power becomes an issue.

Based on what I've learned, it's almost a coin-toss to decide which unit to purchase. It does not appear to me that one has any clear advantage over the other. Do any of you folks have any experience with either of these units that you can share to help me make my decision.

Additional Stuff:

I know that some of you are probably thinking, "Hey, you can't just cut mesquite and huisache at ground level and not expect it to re-grow". Yep, I know... I've been reading everything that I can on-line, and talking to other folks who have been battling this stuff for years. I plan on treating the cut stumps with Remedy & diesel. The chemical war on this invasive crap is another topic, so I won't clutter up this thread.


I'm open to any and all comments, questions, etc. I really want to make the right decision. If you think there are better solutions to tackle this problem, please let me know what you think.

Thanks -

Christopher

 

[oosik]

Chris, Welcome to TBN
Couple of things about the Brown unit. 1) you are beyond the lower end of recommended tractor power - what about 3-point weight, can your tractor handle the 850lb weight? The Brown unit is so new I doubt you will find many folks who have a unit and can provide any info. 2) Cost, wow - I see the price and I wonder how many chain saws & chippers could be purchased for that amount. You sure could get a good chain saw & chipper for a lot less than what you are talking about.
Also remember the 3pt saw can be used for only one thing. A chain saw & pto chipper have at least a few more uses. I thin my Ponderosa pines and use a chain saw & chipper. I don't burn because its a mess and pines only burn when they have "dried" for at least a year. Its going to take longer than you think to cut down a lot of trees with the 3-pt saw. The tractor has to be exactly positioned each time to get a single tree. When I thin, I can easily cut four or more trees/minuet.
My overall opinion - - that's an awful lot to spend just to cut and drag trees.

 

[christophercale]

oosik - Thanks for the reply, all very good points/questions you raise.

A) Yes, I'm aware that I'm just under the recommended HP at the PTO rating for these units. That was one of the first questions I asked when I contacted both Brown and Dougherty. They both said that they felt the units would do fine considering the size of the trees I would be cutting.

Regarding the weight of the unit, here's the specs for the L2850 at the 3-point hitch:

3-Point Hitch:
Rear Type: I
Rear lift (at ends): 2,425 lbs [1099 kg]
Rear lift (at 24"/610mm): 1,980 lbs [898 kg]

Based on these numbers, I don't think that weight will be an issue. Additionally, I have the front end loader to provide ballast on the front of the tractor.

2) Cost....yea... I agree with you. I've been going over and over in my head with the $5500 price tag. I also considered chain saw and chipper. Quite frankly, the chainsaw is gonna be too slow for me. Since I work about 50 hours a week, weekends will be about my only time to work on clearing trees. I did spend about 4 days clearing about 60 yards of fence line with the chain saw. What a horrible job. The mesquite and huisache are SO FULL of nasty thorns that it is impossible to not get stuck and scratched to death when using the chain saw. In a lot of cases, I had to cut off a lot of low hanging branches with a limb-lopper just to get close enough to the larger branches of the tree with out getting tore up by the thorns. Even with thick leather gloves, thorns still managed to poke through into my hands. My arms looked like I had been in a fight with a cougar (not the good kind of cougar ) Yea, I know that I could wear a lot of heavy leather clothing when working on this stuff, but......

Luckily, mesquite and huisache will burn after about 2 weeks of dry time as long as you have a fire going. I burned all of the stuff that I cut from the fence clearing this way. Another thing with the chain saw is that I cannot get a good ground level cut without quickly ruining my chains due to the dirt and flint rock. If I could do all of the clearing with a chain saw, I for sure would! :thumbsup:

Christopher

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

. . . Another thing with the chain saw is that I cannot get a good ground level cut without quickly ruining my chains due to the dirt and flint rock. If I could do all of the clearing with a chain saw, I for sure would! :thumbsup:

If you cut them off at ground level with the tractor saw, you're probably going to dull that blade awfully fast too. I'd want to know what a replacement blade costs. I assume it's not cheap.

If I was staring at this job and felt I couldn't do it with a pole pruner (to lop off enough branches to allow me to get close enough to the tree with a chainsaw), a chainsaw and a grapple, I'd probably take part of the $5,500 cost of the tractor saw and hire a dozer for a couple of days to come in and clear those trees for me. I'll bet a dozer could make a big dent in your trees in a couple of days.

 

[whis]

Rent a skidsteer with mulching head. The thorns will ruin your tires

 

[bikerdib]

Flats, flats and more flats!!

Every little twig that breaks off will be a potential flat. Even though your are at the lower limit of the HP rating you need to consider the hardness of the wood you are going to be cutting too. Mesquite is one tough wood and Huisache is not far behind. You also mentioned the flint rock, are there loose rocks on the surface? All it will take is backing up to one tree that has a rock against it that you didn't see and that will be the end of the blade (or at least you will be doing sharpening maintenance).

Remember, Mesquite is a prized wood by lots of restaurants.

Oh, and did I mention to expect lots of flats while driving your tractor around?

I think I'd be scouring the area for a dozer and operator.

 

[My Gym]

I purchased a Dougherty Tractor Saw about one year ago to clear Eastern Red Cedar Trees from my 47 acres. I have cut 1/2" trees to 20" Stumps. Up to about an 8" diameter trunk, It cuts right through. If it is tilted a little downward to the rear from level, it works similar to a stump grinder to grind down stumps that cut with a chainsaw or too big to cut through level. The Brown tree saw is a copy of the Tractor saw and seems to address some of the issues with the tractor saw. Long low branches reaching your seating position. (the Screen)
I have no rear hydraulics and have just chained up the grapple. The saw blade acts like a fly wheel and strains the pto getting up to speed. The video of the Brown tree saw shows them moving a tree with the saw running. This in practice is not practical due to the saw cutting branches while moving. I have chipped about 8 of the carbide teeth hitting electric fence posts and wire inbedded in the trees along fence lines. I have not replaced or rotated them. I can discuss specific questions, these are just a few observations.. The biggest problem is with tall trees falling on me not having the grapple to push the tree away when falling. Trees with strong low branches preventing the saw from getting close enough to the tree. I would have to chain saw some limbs. Large trees falling towards the tractor and stalling the engine by binding the saw blade. Large Trees I would fell with chain saw and cut the stump by attacking all sides.

 

[My Gym]

A little follow up on my decision to purchase the tractor saw. I had fields that I wanted to use for haying that were infested with Eastern red cedar ranging from 1' to 20' tall. Cedars can be cut at ground level and will die. If you brush hog them a few of them will become very tough ground hugging trees. (works only for very small trees) I did not want the soil disruption that a dozer would cause, and did not want to deal with the dirt covered root balls. For haying purposes, ground cut stumps were acceptable. Skid steers and tree Shears, I do not own and did not want to rent. Also if the cut is not clean, it can leave a wood spike that can damage tires. It is also only a "ground level cut" if you are good and careful. The tractor saw can engage the ground and cut slightly below ground level. I had cut several trees around my property with a chain saw with ground level cut. It was a slow processes and dulled chains quickly. The purchase price of around $5000 was steep, but I could use it for 1-2 years and sell for $3,000-4,000. I could work at my pace and not have to worry about rentals.

 

[christophercale]

Great feedback from everybody, thanks!

Regarding the dozer, as I mentioned in my original post, using a dozer to clear was my first inclination. However, I have since decided that I do not want to disrupt the soil as it is relatively smooth and has a nice covering of grass. Additionally, I don't want to give the mesquite and huisasche any freshly turned soil in which to germinate the millions of seeds which cover the ground.

Regarding the suggestion to rent a skid steer and a mulching head, I also considered that option. In fact, the local electrical power company brought a large hydro-axe out to the property to clear the right of way for the power poles and lines which cross about a 1/4 mile section of our property. I did not see the machine. However, my dad told me that it was a large machine and in about 4 hours it had knocked down every thing in that 1/4 mile path, that was about 80 feet wide. It looked like a war zone because of all of the large chunks of trees laying around, but it did the job.

Regarding flats, you can be sure that I have been thinking about that aspect. I will carefully consider that particular problem and look at methods to reduce that risk.

I really don't want to rent any equipment if possible. I have so many trees to clear, literally hundreds, that I would have to rent equipment for several weeks. Of course that means that I would have to schedule a week of vacation time, every rental period, in order to maximize my rental dollars. I really would like to prioritize the clearing and work on it as time permits, mainly weekends, to achieve my goals. I like knowing that when I want to clear, I have the equipment ready and all I have to do it hop on it and go.

My Gym - Thanks for the info about your Dougherty cutter. It sounds like your situation is/was a lot like mine, I could see a lot of similarities when I read through your posts. Based on your experience, it appears that having the rear hydraulics would be a good thing since you can use it to push the tree away from the tractor to prevent it from falling towards you, and binding the blade.

Regarding the blade, either Brown or Dougherty (I can't remember which) stated that the blade was build for durability, not sharpness, thus the replaceable carbide teeth design of the blade. Can the blade take a beating? You mention that you have not even rotated the teeth, even after chipping some of them, does it still cut well? I think that rocks will be my biggest problem. It's basically loose flint rock any where from pebble size up to 2 to 3 inches. How do you rate the overall design and performance of the unit?

Thanks,

Christopher

 

[930ck]

If you don't have a need for the grapple on the turbo saw they do sell one that comes with a push bar instead for less money. Have a turbosaw with grapple works well on up to 10" but I have cut bigger going at the tree at different directions. Carbide teeth can be rotated 4 times before needing to be replaced for around $200 for a set.