Pat's Easy Change Pat's Easy Change System - Order Online!

[sycamore]

I am new to TBN and just learning how to get around here, so will see if this is the right place to ask my question; it relates to some of the points above - a challenge with Pat's. So, I bought a Cat. 2 Pat's and put it on my Kubota MX5100. I have only used it 5-6 times and have had some of the challenges noted above with backing and alignment, but overall am getting the hang of it and liking the ability to come at pins from below without having to get off, kick 3 pt. arms, try and pull implements an inch one way or the other, etc. Learned quickly that adding 4"-5" length to the 3 pt. arms is a BIG DEAL. The top link issue came first, but solving that is pretty straight forward. My big challenge, and one that could still cause me to give up on Pat's, is the PTO shaft issue. All the PTO work is 540 rpm.

In addition to a 3 pt. corn planter for food plots and a 3 pt. sprayer, I use a JD 503 5' rotary mower and a JD 350 7' sickle mower. So when I hooked up the rotary mower, which has the 3 sided PTO shaft, I had about 4" of overlap. I ran it that way and it seemed OK, but I have been told that amount of overlap is really marginal and will eventually wear the shaft due to extra whip. When I hooked up the sickle mower, which has the rectangular 1" x 1 1/8" shaft, and lowered it to the ground the two PTO halves came apart. I have already done enough calling around to machine shops and PTO shaft suppliers to know that if I want to spend many hundreds of dollars I can have anything built I want and all will be right with the world. But I'm looking for advice on some other options; so here are my questions:
* I know more shaft overlap is better (as long as it doesn't bottom out at shortest length, usually with the implement up) but what is best advice on minimum overlap to avoid problems down the road? I've been told 6" to 10" but would benefit from your collective wisdom.
* I have been looking hard at sites that sell PTO shaft extensions, the kind that go right on the tractor PTO with either standard cross pin securement or a bolt that goes thru hole in center of tractor PTO shaft. I am familiar with that approach as I use a PTO adapter with clutch on my old Ford 9N when on the rotary mower; this would be similar but without the clutch. I found one that would extend the PTO shaft about 9", which would, I think, put my shaft overlap back in good shape. What is the advice on using those kind of extensions? I've had people tell me they will change angles of this and that and cause other problems, but I don't know.
* And finally, are there any other PTO extension approaches that have been tried with success, and any other cautions?

I am looking for long term solutions. I have to drive almost 100 miles to my farm, so when I get there I need things to work and I certainly don't want to damage equipment or create safety problems. Just giving up on the Pat's is still an option, but I'm not quite there yet. Spending lots of money to rework or replace PTO shafts is also an option, but I'm not quite there yet either. Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[kco]

I am no expert. But manuals I have read say 6" is the minimum shaft overlap at its longest extension. So as long as you have that the shaft should be alright.

I have no experience with extensions but know they have worked for others. You should likely get the shortest extension that will maintain the minimum 6" fully-extended shaft overlap. A shorter extension should be better for the tractor's PTO bearings the closer the first PTO universal joint is to the tractor. Perhaps a couple of different length extensions for the different implements would be best or even a new PTO shaft for one of the implements.

 

[GManBart]

I am new to TBN and just learning how to get around here, so will see if this is the right place to ask my question; it relates to some of the points above - a challenge with Pat's. So, I bought a Cat. 2 Pat's and put it on my Kubota MX5100. I have only used it 5-6 times and have had some of the challenges noted above with backing and alignment, but overall am getting the hang of it and liking the ability to come at pins from below without having to get off, kick 3 pt. arms, try and pull implements an inch one way or the other, etc. Learned quickly that adding 4"-5" length to the 3 pt. arms is a BIG DEAL. The top link issue came first, but solving that is pretty straight forward. My big challenge, and one that could still cause me to give up on Pat's, is the PTO shaft issue. All the PTO work is 540 rpm.

In addition to a 3 pt. corn planter for food plots and a 3 pt. sprayer, I use a JD 503 5' rotary mower and a JD 350 7' sickle mower. So when I hooked up the rotary mower, which has the 3 sided PTO shaft, I had about 4" of overlap. I ran it that way and it seemed OK, but I have been told that amount of overlap is really marginal and will eventually wear the shaft due to extra whip. When I hooked up the sickle mower, which has the rectangular 1" x 1 1/8" shaft, and lowered it to the ground the two PTO halves came apart. I have already done enough calling around to machine shops and PTO shaft suppliers to know that if I want to spend many hundreds of dollars I can have anything built I want and all will be right with the world. But I'm looking for advice on some other options; so here are my questions:
* I know more shaft overlap is better (as long as it doesn't bottom out at shortest length, usually with the implement up) but what is best advice on minimum overlap to avoid problems down the road? I've been told 6" to 10" but would benefit from your collective wisdom.
* I have been looking hard at sites that sell PTO shaft extensions, the kind that go right on the tractor PTO with either standard cross pin securement or a bolt that goes thru hole in center of tractor PTO shaft. I am familiar with that approach as I use a PTO adapter with clutch on my old Ford 9N when on the rotary mower; this would be similar but without the clutch. I found one that would extend the PTO shaft about 9", which would, I think, put my shaft overlap back in good shape. What is the advice on using those kind of extensions? I've had people tell me they will change angles of this and that and cause other problems, but I don't know.
* And finally, are there any other PTO extension approaches that have been tried with success, and any other cautions?

I am looking for long term solutions. I have to drive almost 100 miles to my farm, so when I get there I need things to work and I certainly don't want to damage equipment or create safety problems. Just giving up on the Pat's is still an option, but I'm not quite there yet. Spending lots of money to rework or replace PTO shafts is also an option, but I'm not quite there yet either. Thanks in advance for any advice.

PTO tubing is actually pretty inexpensive if you're capable of taking the current shafts apart and reassembling them with the new tubes cut to the proper length. I think I paid around $40 for a 59" section of Eurocardian tubing from Agri Supply not long ago.

While it's not a perfect fix, you could even just replace the half that connects to the tractor, and add 3-4 inches and probably get away with the current shields (not ideal, but I don't go near a PTO shaft when it's turning regardless of shield or not).

You can also look on Amazon (think Georgia Equipment has the best prices through them now) at complete replacement shafts...many are only $1-200). Then sell your current shafts on Craigslist to offset the cost...might not wind up costing that much in the end.

 

[gwdixon]

This is what I use for my smaller tractors with Pat's EC.

Pto Adapter

For the M7040, I bought Cat 2 weld-on Pat's EC. Then the OEM balls were cut off and the Pat's welded in their place.

The result is that the dimensions are the same for PTO shafts and no extension (as above) is needed. An additional plus is that the extendible lower arm ends are still functional.

 

[sycamore]

So lots of good ideas; thanks. Is it a pretty good rule of thumb that 6" of overlap will work? I wish I had better ability to do some of my own metal work and would consider buying extra tubing as suggested. As I talk to the machine shop guys and they start with which parts are pinned and which are welded and of course not all yokes the same size and which class the tubing is I get confused pretty quickly. Not sure I am up to that but will take a better look at my existing PTO shafts and shields and explore it a bit further.

Intrigued by the PTO link posted; I had actually seen that one in some of my many searches. Have you found it to fit good and tight on your original PTO shaft and not add any wobble or vibration? And I can't tell for sure from the spec, how far does it actually move the shaft back? Looks like that might work well for my rotary mower, which already overlaps about 4" and could just use a bit more. But not sure about the sickle mower which at present has no overlap. I have seen a similar extension as long as 9" but have been cautioned by some that too much length will add wobble and be hard on tractor PTO bearings or seals; any thoughts on that?

Also intrigued by the weld-on idea and keeping 3 pt. arms at the original length. As I'm just getting used to the Pat's system and still deciding if it is the real deal I may not go there yet but will explore; I didn't even know they had a weld-on option.

 

[Mendonsy]

I had just the opposite problem with my B7500. The lift arms were so short that it was difficult to hook up the PTO because the shafts had to be all the way in to clear the PTO. With the Pat's QH they are now just about right. I did have to get a longer top link and modified the QH a bit to get rid of those stupid set screws.

 

[gwdixon]

So lots of good ideas; thanks. Is it a pretty good rule of thumb that 6" of overlap will work? I wish I had better ability to do some of my own metal work and would consider buying extra tubing as suggested. As I talk to the machine shop guys and they start with which parts are pinned and which are welded and of course not all yokes the same size and which class the tubing is I get confused pretty quickly. Not sure I am up to that but will take a better look at my existing PTO shafts and shields and explore it a bit further.

Intrigued by the PTO link posted; I had actually seen that one in some of my many searches. Have you found it to fit good and tight on your original PTO shaft and not add any wobble or vibration? And I can't tell for sure from the spec, how far does it actually move the shaft back? Looks like that might work well for my rotary mower, which already overlaps about 4" and could just use a bit more. But not sure about the sickle mower which at present has no overlap. I have seen a similar extension as long as 9" but have been cautioned by some that too much length will add wobble and be hard on tractor PTO bearings or seals; any thoughts on that?

Also intrigued by the weld-on idea and keeping 3 pt. arms at the original length. As I'm just getting used to the Pat's system and still deciding if it is the real deal I may not go there yet but will explore; I didn't even know they had a weld-on option.

I've used the PTO adapter noted in the link on a L3650 and a BX2200 for around 12 years. My neighbor uses the adapter on his Grand L 5460. There has been no damage and no other problems with using a rotary mower, flail mower, rototiller, post hole digger, and a wood chipper. The adapter adds about 4" to the length of the shaft; that is the same as the Pat's addition so everything comes out evenly.

Note that the PTO adapter is a quick detach style and can be taken off and put on just like a regular yoke on a PTO shaft. Yes, there are two attachment points, but the "wobble" or vibration is no more than a standard hook up. If that is a concern then the attachment's push button can be drilled out by a machine shop and a bolt used in its place. That particular bolt style used to be available but I haven't seen them in years.

Longer adapters/extensions are usually "pin on" where a roll pin is driven through the extension and the tractor's PTO shaft. But...some tractors have a PTO shaft without a hole!

If you don't weld, a welding shop can cut off the balls from the extension and weld on the Pat's at the same angle. Don't know the cost. Then the "bolt on" Pat's can be sold. That is what i did (except for doing the welding myself).

 

[sycamore]

Thanks so much. Nothing more assuring than experience with use. All makes sense, but you just hear and read these stories of things that went wrong. It is often from operator error; I can attest to that.

Was just at Tractor Supply to check out some things and they have a PTO extension of the bolt on kind you mentioned. I don't have my MX5100 here and can't even remember if it has a hole in the shaft. At any rate, the TSC extension was huge, and would add 9-10" of length. But I much prefer the quick detach style like are using so it can be easily removed when not using PTO equipment.

Will check out the weld on option. Thanks again.

 

[gwdixon]

Thanks so much. Nothing more assuring than experience with use. All makes sense, but you just hear and read these stories of things that went wrong. It is often from operator error; I can attest to that.

Was just at Tractor Supply to check out some things and they have a PTO extension of the bolt on kind you mentioned. I don't have my MX5100 here and can't even remember if it has a hole in the shaft. At any rate, the TSC extension was huge, and would add 9-10" of length. But I much prefer the quick detach style like are using so it can be easily removed when not using PTO equipment.

Will check out the weld on option. Thanks again.

Yes, I have one of those long extension in my barn. Bought it before I realized that my PTO shaft doesn't have a hole.

Anyway, there is another option with the Pat's. If you have the extendable ends on your lower arms then Pat's will make a hitch that will replace the extendable arms. That way, no geometry is changed and an adapter is unnecessary. But the extendable feature is lost.

The Greenwell Mfg. website is not that easy to negotiate so you might choose to call them and ask about the custom built hitch for extendable arms. I owned a set for a while but wanted to have the extendable feature also. Sold them to a TBN member with a M7040.

EDIT: Ooooh...just found a photo of the custom made Pat's (on top). OEM telescoping fixture is on the bottom.

 

[sycamore]

I do have the extendable arms on the MX5100 but have not used them much (only have them on the MX and have not had that long) and tend to forget about them. But they are handy and I should get in the habit of using them. Replacement ends is an interesting option. Thanks for the photo; it is clear what they have done. But it also makes me wonder if they could have the top feature (quick hitch) and still have the horizontal slot for extension. But the extendable arm has a spring mechanism so maybe there is something in the engineering? I assume there is a reason, as having both quick hitch and extendable would be the ultimate.

And what are the yellow washers? Looks like maybe you had a bunch of custom ones made (or made them yourself) with two tabs for the lynch pin to keep it straight and in place. I've already used the hitch enough to know that I've had to reposition the washers a few times to keep them out of the way of the arms coming up from below.