Resurrecting an old Ford 917 flail

[Fallon]

Last summer I picked up an old beat-up flail mower for $100. I figure I could scrap it for over half what I paid for it in the worst case scenario. Guy I bought it from said it was working, but I didn't worry about testing it out at that price. So now I'm finally getting around to trying to get it working. It's 6' wide (I think, haven't bothered measuring, but that 3rd pic below makes it look a more than 1' wider than the 5' between my current footprint) & I have a 5' Land Pride rotary cutter I got new about 2 years ago. My 5 acres is mostly pasture, with little need for cutting anything but grass & lighter weeds. If I have need of more hard core brush cutting I can go back to my rotary cutter. My rotary cutter works good, but it will be nice to have an extra foot of cutting width (have contemplated a 6-7' finish mower if I could find a great bargain on one). Not worried about power. I have a HST & could stand to be limited by the extra mower width & extra HP drain rather than the travel limit of my HST pedal in middle gear as I often am now.



I finally found a decal on the back & it looks to be a Ford 917 Model 22-184. Anybody happen to have a manual for it? Messick's has a nice parts list at https://www.messicks.com/NH/61792.aspx but I haven't had any luck googling up a manual yet.



When I pulled off the belts, I can rotate everything by hand reasonably well. Bearings are a little rough, but are better than the rest of the mower looks. Found some replacement kevlar belts at TSC today & got them installed.

The PTO shaft won't even touch in the middle if I attach each end (It was short to begin with & I have a quick hitch), so obviously I need a new PTO shaft. Plus it's old & probably pretty fatigued, so replacing it won't hurt. After I pulled it apart I realized it's splined at each end, so no sheer pin in the usual place. After getting concerned for a bit, I realized it does have 2 big V belts attaching the output shaft from the gearbox to the flail itself. Do these V belts mitigate the need for a sheer pin? Is there a sheer pin on the output shaft of the gearbox (cover over that shaft is beat-up & I haven't pulled it off yet). Any recommendations on where to get a cheap PTO shaft other than Amazon? How are PTO shaft's measured? I've got 37" from the tip of the PTO stub on the tractor to the tip of the one in the gearbox on the flail when everything is raised up. I'm aware of the potential binding issues & how to cut one down.

The roller in back spins fine, although is missing a grease zerk. The grease zerk on one of the bearing housings for the roller is gone & none of the standard zerks fit. Should I pull the whole housing off, drill it out & tap it for a standard zerk? Just pump in a bit of grease with a needle every time I use it?



It came with a pair of trailing wheels in a box (can see the mounting frame for it laying in the grass in the top photos). Seller said he never used them & it worked fine. They look pretty beat to ****. Forks should be salvageable, but wheels probably aren't & there are no tires. Should I just run it without the trailing wheels, or bother rebuilding them?

It looks to be missing a few knives. I've seen recommendations for Clean Cutter Tiller Blades on other threads. However, can anybody tell me or point me to a good resource on the different type of knives or hammers? I'll probably just replace the couple of missing ones, but am curious. Each knife pair makes an upside down V, which seems odd to me. It looks like it would make a serrated cut rather than a smooth cut. Is it a bad idea to run it with missing knives? I assume it will leave strips, but will it also cause vibration problems due to balance issues until I get the replacement knives? Do you need to sharpen these knives at all? I know you leave a rotary cutter "BrushHog" bar dull so it shatters rather than cuts. Unsurprisingly it looks like some have been replaced already. Any differences in the 2 hanger types I've found, or just irrelevant cosmetic differences?



The rotor has a few dents in the bars where you attach the knives where it looks like it hit something & bent back a bit. This likely to be a big deal?

I couldn't find a grease zerk on the idler pulley or top pulley, am I missing something? Or do those not need greasing?



I figure if it works out well this summer I might patch up some of the tears in the sheet metal (there are several in need of it & several that were patched years ago) this winter & maybe replace some bearings. Or just run it until it needs work, who knows.

Thoughts & suggestions welcome (except suggestions that you will grudgingly take it off my hands for me ).

 

[mjcountrybumpkin]

I'm not trying to be negative , BUT that is a LOT of mower for that tractor. Sure will be easy to mow next to fences.

 

[leonz]

Hello Fallon,

I want to welcome you as the newest member of the "Flail Mower Nation".


B4 someone leads you down the rabbit hole; Please read the flail mower thread on the attachments
forums here. you have plenty of time before you have heavy mowing to do.

Call Messicks and purchase a mower manual over the phone and have them mail it to you.

Many of the members have the Ford 917 and it is an excellent flailmower.

NOW, when you have time can you please take some detailed pictures of
the flail mower rotor which is what the knive D hangers attach to Please????

I want to help you before you make a mistake period
========================================================================================================================================================

Last summer I picked up an old beat-up flail mower for $100.



If you picked up the mower for 100 dollars great.



I figure I could scrap it for over half what I paid for it in the worst case scenario.
Guy I bought it from said it was working, but I didn't worry about testing it out at that price.
So now I'm finally getting around to trying to get it working.
It's 6' wide (I think, haven't bothered measuring, but that 3rd pic below makes it look a more
than 1' wider than the 5' between my current footprint) & I have a 5' Land Pride rotary cutter
I got new about 2 years ago.
My 5 acres is mostly pasture, with little need for cutting anything but grass & lighter weeds.
If I have need of more hard core brush cutting I can go back to my rotary cutter.
My rotary cutter works good, but it will be nice to have an extra foot of cutting width
(have contemplated a 6-7' finish mower if I could find a great bargain on one).
Not worried about power.

I have a HST & could stand to be limited by the extra mower width & extra HP drain rather
than the travel limit of my HST pedal in middle gear as I often am now.



Its not a case of limiting your travel speed itis a case of using the flail mower effectively at a lower cutting height.






View attachment 426535 View attachment 426536 View attachment 426541

I finally found a decal on the back & it looks to be a Ford 917 Model 22-184. Anybody happen to have a manual for it? Messick's has a nice parts list at https://www.messicks.com/NH/61792.aspx but I haven't had any luck googling up a manual yet.

View attachment 426537



Purchase a manual for it from Messicks.






When I pulled off the belts, I can rotate everything by hand reasonably well. Bearings are a little rough, but are better than the rest of the mower looks. Found some replacement kevlar belts at TSC today & got them installed.



You need to pump in 6 pumps of grease in the mower and no mower before mowing.




The PTO shaft won't even touch in the middle if I attach each end (It was short to begin with & I have a quick hitch), so obviously I need a new PTO shaft. Plus it's old & probably pretty fatigued, so replacing it won't hurt. After I pulled it apart I realized it's splined at each end, so no sheer pin in the usual place. After getting concerned for a bit, I realized it does have 2 big V belts attaching the output shaft from the gearbox to the flail itself.
Do these V belts mitigate the need for a sheer pin? Is there a sheer pin on the output shaft of the gearbox (cover over that shaft is beat-up & I haven't pulled it off yet).



The V belts are the only protection needed for the mower whereby the belts are burned up if the mower is overloaded.




Any recommendations on where to get a cheap PTO shaft other than Amazon? How are PTO shaft's measured? I've got 37" from the tip of the PTO stub on the tractor to the tip of the one in the gearbox on the flail when everything is raised up. I'm aware of the potential binding issues & how to cut one down.



Tractor Supply Corporation

Be sure to look for the video on Youtube or on the forum here describing how to properly size and
cut the shaft halves for the proper length.





The roller in back spins fine, although is missing a grease zerk. The grease zerk on one of the bearing housings for the roller is gone & none of the standard zerks fit. Should I pull the whole housing off, drill it out & tap it for a standard zerk? Just pump in a bit of grease with a needle every time I use it?




NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All you need to do is purchase a bottoming tap to clean the threads and use blue loctite for the new grease fittings. AS long as your at it you should replace them all!!




View attachment 426538





It came with a pair of trailing wheels in a box (can see the mounting frame for it laying in the grass in the top photos). Seller said he never used them & it worked fine. They look pretty beat to ****. Forks should be salvageable, but wheels probably aren't & there are no tires. Should I just run it without the trailing wheels, or bother rebuilding them?



You can buy new wheels but if the old wheels have never been used
there is no reason you cannot use them.

You should mount the frame and wheels for the mower and be sure to use nylock nuts and fine threaded bolts.

Being a new user/owner to flail mowers the wheels will have a beneficial effect for you and will help to keep the mower level from side to side.





It looks to be missing a few knives. I've seen recommendations for Clean Cutter Tiller Blades on other threads. However, can anybody tell me or point me to a good resource on the different type of knives or hammers?



You can only use the side slicer knives that are mounted on the flail mower.

you need to have spare D rings, nuts, bolts, and a large bottle of blue loctite
in your parts inventory.







I'll probably just replace the couple of missing ones, but am curious. Each knife pair makes an upside down V, which seems odd to me.



NOT ODD, this is a standard knive hanging arrangement for most flail mowers It is referred
to as a side slicer knive pair.




It looks like it would make a serrated cut rather than a smooth cut.


Most all tThe side slicers have a slotted knive mounting hole and become aerodynamic at the high speed of rotor rotation and the knives become a level wing creating a flat cut so no worries there.




Is it a bad idea to run it with missing knives?



Never mow when knives are missing EVER.



I assume it will leave strips, but will it also cause vibration problems due to balance issues until I get the replacement knives?



YES it will leave strips and you will experience vibration problems.




Do you need to sharpen these knives at all?

A wet grinder is best for flail knives but many of the members use right angle grinders
or table belt sanders. I wet grind my knives and have original knives purchased in 1992.


I know you leave a rotary cutter "BrushHog" bar dull so it shatters rather than cuts. Unsurprisingly it looks like some have been replaced already. Any differences in the 2 hanger types I've found, or just irrelevant cosmetic differences?

View attachment 426539



The knive hangers are the same, they mount the same way.








The rotor has a few dents in the bars where you attach the knives where it looks like it hit something & bent back a bit. This likely to be a big deal?



If the flail mower rotor is damaged you cannot use the mower safely.





I couldn't find a grease zerk on the idler pulley or top pulley, am I missing something? Or do those not need greasing?



You need to give this mower a good washing at the car wash with the belt guard off to find the fittings.






View attachment 426540

I figure if it works out well this summer I might patch up some of the tears in the sheet metal (there are several in need of it & several that were patched years ago) this winter & maybe replace some bearings. Or just run it until it needs work, who knows.

Thoughts & suggestions welcome (except suggestions that you will grudgingly take it off my hands for me ).

READ THE FLAIL MOWER THREAD TO LEARN MORE PLEASE.

 

[Fallon]

I'd read several other flail threads, up to page 20 of the beastly 200+ page one now.

I poked around underneath & got a handful of photos. It has 3 rows of knife hangers. One row seems perfectly straight, the other is a bit bent. I have the belts on so can't easily rotate it by hand to check on the 3rd row, but it's not any worse than the one I have photos of. I got photos of the worst bits.

 

[leonz]

I'd read several other flail threads, up to page 20 of the
beastly 200+ page one now.

I poked around underneath & got a handful of photos.

It has 3 rows of knife hangers. One row seems perfectly straight, the other is a bit bent.

I have the belts on so can't easily rotate it by hand to check on the 3rd row, but it's not
any worse than the one I have photos of. I got photos of the worst bits.

View attachment 426908 View attachment 426909 View attachment 426910 View attachment 426911 View attachment 426912

Groan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hello Fallon,


If at all possible please put the mower on its back to
obtain better photos for me as I need to see the
third row of knive hangers.

That is the only way to check it more thoroughly.

Now, it is obvious that the mower was miss-used and
not maintained properly and many of the knive hangers
and side slicer knives are missing.

The previous owner did not maintain it or did not use it.

You can not run it the way it is without causing bearing failures.

 

[George2615]

I think you got a great deal. I also bought a 917 last year but paid a little more than you did. Mine had all the cutter blades, new belts but needed roller bearings and is missing the rear shield. I ordered the bearings locally from Kaman Bearing. I changed the gearbox fluid, replaced some missing bolts, installed the new bearings, replaced PTO U-joints, greased and shot on a coat of paint. It does look a little big for your tractor.

 

[dieselscout80]

I bought a 917 back in 2010 for $100 and have used it since and I like it.

Mine has inverted T shaped knives three rows of 11 and cuts great.

I have a IH 424 tractor (about 35 HP) and it cuts just fine with it unless the grass is like 3.5' tall. When it's that tall I need to go slower than my 1st gear allows. I just take a smaller cut, but with your hydostatic drive tractopr you can just go slower.

I finally replaced my knives for the first time this year and that helped with tall grass. I kept the old knives sharp with a angle grinder, but the wear on them must have made them efficent.

I do find that the rotor turns hard by hand odd. I can turn mine fine with the PTO disengaged on the tractor and without the PTO connected to the tractor it is ok to turn.

I think Id check to make sure the rotor is not bent.

Your knives should be evenly spaced in each row and alternating between each row.

I replaced my rear roller bearings and the new ones are sealed, so the grease zerk could be plugged.

The metal sheilding on your 917 is in better shape than mine.

I think you'll like it if your tractor can handle it, but I would try it to know forsure.

 

[Fallon]

Go go gadget SSQA to 3pt adapter...



Without the belts on I could easily turn the rotor or gearbox drive train. I haven't tried terribly hard since putting on the belts when I was able to roll the pulleys enough to put the belts on & avoid loosing fingers. Not sure if I should have gotten the next size belts up as they were a bit tighter than I'd like. Hopefully they will loosen a touch as I was barely able to get the nut on the adjuster & only tightened it down enough to engage all the threads on the nut.

2 of the missing knives are ones I removed for inspection & photos, but ya it does look like it was run a couple knives short. I paid $100 for it, so I wan't expecting a perfectly maintained piece of machinery.

There wasn't much dirt & grime to wash off. I found the roller zerks (or missing zerk hole) as well as the rotor & U joint zerks easily enough. I just haven't been able to find a zerk for the idler pully or the one on the bearing next to the drive pulley.

Planning on changing the gearbox lube after it's maiden voyage to make sure it works right.

I have the frame for the rear tires & some pretty worn forks, but the metal wheels are deeply pitted & rusted beyond repair. Not sure if they had solid or pneumatic tires on them, pneumatic I assume, but any rubber it long gone. It would be a fair bit of work and a few bucks to replace them, just wondering if it's worth it.

Unless anybody recommends otherwise I'm assuming those minor dents on the knife hangers aren't going to scuttle the project. Will snag a new PTO shaft, some new knives & probably a manual next week.

 

[dieselscout80]

Flail master was very helpful and prompt with their shipping.

 

[2458n]

Can you save some money by buying a PTO 1/2 shaft? My Ford flail mower is perfect on my in town lots with oak tree leaves. Needs to be kept inside or covered. Rain water froze and ruined one of the bearings on the right side. The 5 foot width helps with the between trees mowing.

 

[TNhobbyfarmer]

Fallon, I have the same 917 flail. It was working with new cutters when I got it so I paid more than you ($400.00). It has worked fine behind my Kubota 3430 geared tractor which is 28.5 PTO hp. I think your tractor should be big enough to get acceptable performance.

Couple of things regarding zerks. I had to replace one on the roller. A standard 1/4 X 28 fit fine. I think that if you run a 1/4 X 28 tap through the hole you should be able to replace the missing one with no problem. Like you, I haven't been able to find a zerk for the idler pulley and top pulley. I don't even see zerks referenced on the Messicks exploded parts view but it just makes sense to me that the idler and top pulley should require grease. If you are able to determine where we're both going wrong, please post what you find out.

One last thing, you mention that you replaced belts, plural. The correct belt is a single double V belt. I'm not sure if the two belts you used will be problematic, but I'm a little worried for you. Just something to think about.

 

[dieselscout80]

One last thing, you mention that you replaced belts, plural. The correct belt is a single double V belt. I'm not sure if the two belts you used will be problematic, but I'm a little worried for you. Just something to think about.

Mine had a single belt on it when I bought it and I used it that way for a couple of years. When I went looking for a "B" belt I could not find one locally. At Napa a got two matching "V" belts (measured to make sure) and it's been fine now for a few years.

I need to pickup the correct belt at some point, so on Saturdays when I'm mowing and the belts break I'm not stuck.

 

[TNhobbyfarmer]

Mine had a single belt on it when I bought it and I used it that way for a couple of years. When I went looking for a "B" belt I could not find one locally. At Napa a got two matching "V" belts (measured to make sure) and it's been fine now for a few years.

I need to pickup the correct belt at some point, so on Saturdays when I'm mowing and the belts break I'm not stuck.

Messicks stocks the correct double v belt, both New Holland brand and aftermarket.

Dieselscout, does your 917 have grease fittings for the idler pulley and top pulley.

 

[dieselscout80]

I know that the idler does not have a grease zerk.

I'll have to check on the bearing behind the too pulley, but I don't think there is one there either.

 

[TNhobbyfarmer]

I know that the idler does not have a grease zerk.

I'll have to check on the bearing behind the too pulley, but I don't think there is one there either.

I looked in the Flailmaster catalog and think I answered my own question. They offer two variations of top bearings. One of the bearings comes with a zerk and the other variation doesn't have a zerk. Apparently if you have the variation that doesn't have the zerk (that's what I have), you would have to take the bearing out and repack it in order to get grease to it. I think I will just use it until failure and at that point replace it with the bearing that has the fitting. I may or may not ever have to do that. I don't have as much property to mow as I used to have and don't put many hours on the flail. Maybe the top bearings will outlive me.

Also, it doesn't appear that the idler pulley requires grease. Seems contrary to logic but apparently that's the case.

Fallon, not trying to hijack your post. Chime in when you get a chance and let us know your progress with your 917.

 

[Fallon]

No worries on hijacking, we are all talking about the same flails.

Finally figured out I needed to download the Flailmaster catalog & not look at the useless Flail mower parts page. Have a full set of knives, hangers, D rings, nuts & bolts coming. A bit over $200, so not to bad. Figure a matched set will be better for balance than just replacing the missing one & I'll keep the old stuff around for spares.

A full set of greasable (if available) bearings is going to be around $250. Probably spring for those this fall or winter if the flail works as expected (along with welding up the cracks & tears, probably painting & chainging the gearbox oil too). Bearings are a little rough, but not too bad. Until then I'll probably just use a needle to pump grease into the missing zerk on the roller & keep it covered.

Just need to find a PTO shaft now. Braber Equipment General-Purpose PTO Shaft Assembly — 36in. Collapsed Length, Model# 69.885.005 looks to be what I need. The 1 bad review is them complaining it has the right splined implement connector I need, rather than round. Pretty sure I'll need to trim it a bit, which is easy enough. It was 37" between the ends of the 2 PTO stubs when I had things fully raised. Will probably pull the trigger on this today.

 

[TNhobbyfarmer]

Thanks for the update Fallon. If you get a chance, post pictures of your rebuild. We all like pictures

 

[Fallon]

Well, it's a tail of the good the bad & the ugly.

The bad:
Most of the knives were in surprisingly good shape & probably didn't need to be replaced. The flailmaster hangers & D rings were noticeably beefier than the mishmash of hangers that were on there. I ordered the number that flailmaster indicated in their catalogue, but that was 10 short. Left 10 of the good old bits of hardware on until I replace bearings this fall.

The good:
It cuts great. Less scalping than the rotary cutter & a nice smooth cut. The SSQA to 3pt adapter made changing out the knives easy. Tossed in a 2x4 as a safety stop & just went to town with the air gun at a nice working height. Grass was thigh high, a lot higher & thicker than I've cut with the rotary cutter as it's been a very wet spring & I've been slacking on mowing. Flail seemed to use equal or perhaps less HP than the rotary cutter despite being about 25% wider. Works great on my 32hp HST (25pto HP if I remember). Photos from the rear make it look a little bit wider compared to the tractor than it is, but I like the extra width. It doesn't mulch as well as I'd like, but I am mowing thigh high grass, so probably less of an issue if I'm up on things. Leaves a nice smooth carpet of better chopped up clippings on top rather than piles of clumps the rotary does.


The ugly:
Found out why some of the knives were missing & probably why it was sold. Fired it up & heard a god awful clatter of something very night right. There was a couple inch rectangle patch welded on the inside & couple knives would hit that. There were also some small knife strikes along the back corner or the hood & next to that one big knife strike that tore through you can see in the first post. I started grinding the patch inside, then noticed the other strikes indicating the hood got a bit bent (couldn't really see any indication of that other than the strikes though). Busted out the plasma cutter & went to town. Fired it up to double check things worked & ended up doing a half hours worth of mowing down the thistle I was slacking on. Get a bit of a shower of grass when you are mowing with the wind, but it works great. Will pick some thin 5-6" bar stock & patch up the slots later this week.



This winter I'll likely replace the bearings & remaining flails. I'm happy with what I've got now, other than the shower of clippings from the unfinished repair. Killer height control. Set my hydraulic toplink to float which drops the roller onto the ground. Just use the 3pt to set the height. I can lower it to scalp the center weeds on the driveway (actually can get to low & see a few sparks shooting out the back from hitting gravel). Wish I could get an inch or 2 higher I think to leave the grass 6-7" tall, but it's pretty good as is.

 

[dieselscout80]

Wish I could get an inch or 2 higher I think to leave the grass 6-7" tall, but it's pretty good as is.

I use check chains to keep mine cutting at about 8" in my pasture.

Chain Limiter Kit

Its looking good.

http://www.ntractorclub.com/howtos/pdfs/Limiter-Chains.pdf

 

[Fallon]

Did the mowing at dusk lastnight. Looked at the cut in the light today & it's not quite as good on the grass as I thought last night. It decimated the thistle & left that great though. I'm expecting slowing down a bit & cutting it before it gets thigh high will mulch better & give me the little bit better cut I'm looking for though.

Need to pick up that bar stock at lunch sometime this week.