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  1. #11
    Super Member RobS's Avatar
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    Jun 2000
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    6,233
    Location
    SW Michigan
    Tractor
    John Deere 790

    Default Re: Box scraper basics

    Now I"m confused. Harv, you described how I thought my fixed back scraper works. I never understood the hinge back until Jim said that by lengthening the top link, the rear blade swings out of the way and the front blade takes a more aggressive cut. If I lengthen my top link the box will begin riding on the rear blade effectively reducing the cut of the front blade. Harv, how does your box float on the rear blade if it is hinged?

    Inquiring minds want 3D animations [img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]


  2. #12
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    368
    Location
    northern calif.
    Tractor
    JD-970

    Default Re: Box scraper basics

    Harv and Jim, on my box scraper (Gannon) I pin the back flapper blade down to fixed shut. Then extend the top link out to tilt the box onto the curved edge of the rear blade for smoothing. This works out the best for me when trying to get a fine finsh. On cutting hard ground, placing most of the box weight on the inside blade instead of the box side rails will gets me the deepest cut. This means tilting the box back onto the inside blade by extending the center link ram to raise the box nose.
    Tilting the box forward, shorting the link, shifts the box weight to the box front side walls and pulls the blade away from the ground will get's me a lighter cut.
    I don't know the correct (tilt forward/rear) answer Harv, but this is how it all seems to work on my Gannon box.

    george


  3. #13
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    1,344
    Location
    West Virginia (Eastern Panhandle)
    Tractor
    '78 Kubota B6100DT

    Default Re: Box scraper basics

    I've got a Gannon box blade with a swinging rear blade too and mine works like Rob and George point out.

    When I first got it the rear blade was pinned and I tried the "lengthen the top link to get a more agressive cut" but the box just floated on the pinned rear blade and didn't cut at all. It frustrated the heck out of me.

    Then I un-pinned the rear blade and I can tilt the box back to get the more agressive cut or forward to ride on the sides of the box for less of a cut.

    With the rear blade un-pinned, though there's no way to use the box blade to smooth ground - which is OK because I back-drag my FEL for that...


  4. #14
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    1,659
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area California (CA)
    Tractor
    Kubota B7500

    Default Re: Box scraper basics

    Robert,

    I have to second what Bird & Larry have already said. I've now only got about 15 hours on my 'bota (heck, she doesn't even have a name yet!), so take this with a VERY large grain of salt [img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img].

    My Woods scraper (48"), has fixed blades front & rear, but I do have a T&T kit. I've found that there's as much "art" to this as science, but I will share what I've learned "so far".

    As others have already stated, shortening the top link tilts the box forward, and tends to get more agressive with digging in the front blade. Lengthening the top link tilts the box back and will tend to put the weight of the box on the back-facing blade (which is good for smoothing).

    I've found when I'm in digging mode, that the first "engagement" of the front blade with "heavy stuff" (sorry, if I'm not being too articulate here[img]/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif[/img]). that any slack in any of the hydraulics is taken up, and the box will rotate from where you "thought" it was, and will rotate to a more agressive position. As this happens I "touch" the top link a little bit to push the box back into the position I thought it "should have been in". I've also found that little bits for and aft on the top link make big differences in what the end result is.

    Lastly, I'm still learning, and it's clear that I still have a lot to learn. I think this takes a lot of practice, practice, practice. The good news is that the practice is a lot of fun. In the mean time, I do it a little at a time as I build confidence and experience.

    The GlueGuy

  5. #15
    Epic Contributor Bird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Posts
    36,997
    Location
    Texas

    Default Re: Box scraper basics

    <font color=blue>My box has a hinged rear blade</font color=blue>

    Are you sure, Harv? I thought you had the same box blade I have, with the fixed front and rear blades.

    Bird

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Aug 2000
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    3,371
    Location
    California - S.F. East Bay & Sierra foothills
    Tractor
    Kubota L2500DT Standard Transmission

    Default Re: Box scraper basics

    Let me once again gripe about the fact that I can't just run out and look at my tractor and box blade to see what I actually have. [img]/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif[/img]

    First of all -- Bird, I remember you said my box looked like yours, even though mine is a Howse, but mine does indeed have a hinged rear blade (see attached picture).

    Since I have about as few hours on my tractor as anybody, it would probably be okay to ignore anything I say here, but I have used my box blade enough to have some feel for what it does. Having said that, I'm starting to think I do have some misconceptions about what the rear blade is doing.

    When I'm dragging the box, I can clearly see the front blade at work, and I still maintain that shortening the toplink causes it to dig in and take a serious bite. When the link is lengthened, I can also see that the front blade is not engaging the soil at ground level. That's just what my eyeballs are telling me.

    The rear blade, however, is not visible from the seat, so I guess I formed a mental picture of what it must be doing, and that's where I may have misconceived. I thought the hinged blade had a limited travel, so that it only swung back so far and then hit some kind of stop. That would have made it possible to float the box on the rear blade. Looking at my own picture, I don't see any such stop, so it must be free to swing as far as it wants to, so Rob is right to question my "floating on the hinged blade" theory. [img]/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif[/img]

    I'm not aware of any way to "pin" the rear blade, as George and Bill have mentioned, so I have to assume that there's something useful to be accomplished by a free-swinging blade. It occurs to me that I do monkey quite a bit with the position control when I'm trying to do anything close to finish work. So far, in fact, my "finish" work has been pretty lame. [img]/w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif[/img] The story I'm telling my wife is that it won't ever work right until I get a tip 'n' tilt setup. [img]/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    I bought my box blade new, and despite the label saying, "Read the operator's manual before using", it came with no such manual. Time for a phone call. If any of you were fortunate enough to receive a manual with yours, perhaps there's some useful info on how to use these suckers?

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -5-36333-boxblade-jpg  

  7. #17
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
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    5,658
    Location
    Cedartown, Ga and N. Ga mountains
    Tractor
    1998 Kubota B21, 2005 Kubota L39

    Default Re: Box scraper basics

    Harv, I have the same Box blade as you and there is no stop or lock for the rear blade. Ahhh...welder. I would like to be able to lock the rear blade for some applications.

    While reading a post, from a new tractor owner, I was left with the impression they were not sure if buying a box blade was a good idea because they did not have top and tilt. We have been talking a lot about top and tilt (in my case drooling) and how much it helps when using a box blade. I would not want anyone to feel that a box blade is not worth buying unless you have t&t. Without t&t the box blade is still the implement that is on my tractor most of the time. You can do a lot of work with a box blade with or without T&T, it is just easier to fine tune with.

    Just my thoughts, do you all agree or disagree?

    MarkV




  8. #18
    Super Member RobS's Avatar
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    Jun 2000
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    6,233
    Location
    SW Michigan
    Tractor
    John Deere 790

    Default Re: Box scraper basics

    Boy Harv, if you do get a manual that tells how to use it, be sure to post it here for all of us [img]/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    My King Kutter came with no documentation. Fortunately for me, I had studied thier web site in my research as I had to point out the correct loose parts from a box of miscelaneous bits and pieces at the store where I bought it. Such is life for those of us trying to save a buck or two [img]/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

    The only documentation on the web for my blade is an exploded view showing all the parts. Nothing about operation.

    Maybe this should become volume II for Muhammad's new book series [img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]


  9. #19
    Super Member RobS's Avatar
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    Jun 2000
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    6,233
    Location
    SW Michigan
    Tractor
    John Deere 790

    Default Re: Box scraper basics

    Not having T&T, I'd have to agree that the box scraper is still mighty useful. It's like a TV without a remote control. Works just fine, but requires some extra effort to adjust [img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]


  10. #20

    Join Date
    Aug 2000
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    3,371
    Location
    California - S.F. East Bay & Sierra foothills
    Tractor
    Kubota L2500DT Standard Transmission

    Default Re: Box scraper basics

    Well, I just downloaded and perused the box blade operator's manuals from BushHog, KingKutter, LandPride and Worksaver. They're all just like Rob said -- they don't say diddly about how to use the things. [img]/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif[/img]

    My conclusion is that their usage is obvious and requires no explanation. [img]/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif[/img]


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