fire pump

   / fire pump #31  
Yes floating pumps whether they are high speed centrifugal or deep well submersible will
pump water from a standing source or river or creek with adequate water depth and feet
per minute of flow across the suction port. the same applies to a deep well submersible
in a pond. WE collectively do not know whether this pond is spring fed or rain fed so..............

I fully understand hydraulics and circulation of fluids as I stated earlier having
rebuilt hydraulic pumps and motors as well as installing Hale and Waterous Fire Pumps
in Saulsbury fire trucks.

A deep well submersible can have at least three turbine stages to pump water
and will continue to supply that water as long as the motor remains cool or has adequate
water depth to keep the motor cool.

As long as the submersible pump has a clear suction, and or a pump sleeve and
adequate water depth to pull water from it will work well.

Lots of folks use Deep Well Submersibles suspedned on a PVC float to aerate deep ponds.
My neighor has his mounted on a PVC pipe float with a one inch fan nozzle attached to it
with a pipe nipple to aerate his mud pond.


I guess he is going to have to talk to his local fire department about pumps if he
does not want to use an electric pump BUT according to him his budget is limited.
I also laid out a parts list for what he needs minus a generator.

As he lives in Eastern Washington State his is in a bit of a pickle as much of the area is a desert of sorts.

I wish him well and I want him to succeed, not fail.
 
   / fire pump #32  
One thing to remember, and I'm speaking has a retired firefighter, just because a nozzle is rated at a certain psi ( say 100 psi ), that does not mean it has to be operated at that pressure. If you're going to be moving that hose all over the place ( like brush fires ), a much lower psi will make it much more maneuverable, allowing you to accomplish more things quickly without beating yourself. Just a thought.
 
   / fire pump #33  
Thanks Cord. I'm no longer considering the Honda pumps. Everybody who knows about fire pump say you need more PSI than that to run a fire nozzle.

I will say that I've used a straight fire hose nozzle on my clear water pump with rather impressive results. I first learned about the nozzle when we rented a hydroseeder and needed to run some water through the lines to clean them out. I put 500 gallons of water in the tank and "watered the trees" from 150' away! A fleepin' ton of fun! Based on that, I then bought one of the McMaster nozzles for my pump. It's a ex-military portable water pump. Rated at 65 gpm with a 50' lift. I don't know what pressure or what the max lift is. But, it does really well with that nozzle. I wouldn't try to fight a structure fire with it, but I'd take on a small grass fire. The problem that I see is the set up time. The pump requires two people move. Another trip for the fuel can. Hook up the suction hose, set it so it doesn't suck mud. That alone is 5 minutes. Run out the hoses. I can't see this process happening in less than 15 minutes. Not knowing where you are, but in that time, I'll be putting water on the smoking grass because the fire has already moved out of range. If you are serious about the need for fire protection, perhaps get a farm wagon with a 1,000 gallon tank and mount the pump right on the wagon. If the fill tank is prepositioned, you might get your response time down to just 5 minutes. Even then, 5 minutes is such a long time that the fire could be out of control by then. Not my post, but this is my pump: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?91764-New-Toy-65GPM-Yanmar-powered-freshwater-pump/page2 You have to log in to see the pics, but there are some good ones with a fire nozzle. Note he has the discharge hose kinked in the photos.

A while back we were burning some scrap wood from our barn reno. A gust of wind came up and blew a bunch of embers into the scrap wood pile we were feeding from. Within a minute there was a half dozen smoking hot spots. Thankfully I had a plan in place. We had already filled the atv sprayer with water and had the tree sprayer wand mounted. I worked on sucking heat from the main fire and the mrs drove the atv around putting out hot spots. In case those 25 gallons were not enough I had 6 5 gallon buckets of water already staged to quickly refill the tank. Thankfully, they were not necessary and we got the fires put out within a couple of minutes. Point is, when it hits the fan, you don't have the time to set up the pump. It already has to be standing by.

I second the "Indian" brand fire pumps. I keep one at ready at my off grid cabin.

McMaster-Carr
 
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   / fire pump
  • Thread Starter
#35  
Thanks everyone for all for your helpful input. I believe I know what I need for a system that will work for me. It's something I'll probably never need but at least I'll have the piece of mind of having it. As far as setup time that shouldn't be any more than it would take for the fire dept. to get there anyway and with all the other fires going on during this crazy fire season who knows what resources would be available.
I will say that I've used a straight fire hose nozzle on my clear water pump with rather impressive results. I first learned about the nozzle when we rented a hydroseeder and needed to run some water through the lines to clean them out. I put 500 gallons of water in the tank and "watered the trees" from 150' away! A fleepin' ton of fun! Based on that, I then bought one of the McMaster nozzles for my pump. It's a ex-military portable water pump. Rated at 65 gpm with a 50' lift. I don't know what pressure or what the max lift is. But, it does really well with that nozzle. I wouldn't try to fight a structure fire with it, but I'd take on a small grass fire. The problem that I see is the set up time. The pump requires two people move. Another trip for the fuel can. Hook up the suction hose, set it so it doesn't suck mud. That alone is 5 minutes. Run out the hoses. I can't see this process happening in less than 15 minutes. Not knowing where you are, but in that time, I'll be putting water on the smoking grass because the fire has already moved out of range. If you are serious about the need for fire protection, perhaps get a farm wagon with a 1,000 gallon tank and mount the pump right on the wagon. If the fill tank is prepositioned, you might get your response time down to just 5 minutes. Even then, 5 minutes is such a long time that the fire could be out of control by then. Not my post, but this is my pump: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?91764-New-Toy-65GPM-Yanmar-powered-freshwater-pump/page2 You have to log in to see the pics, but there are some good ones with a fire nozzle. Note he has the discharge hose kinked in the photos.

A while back we were burning some scrap wood from our barn reno. A gust of wind came up and blew a bunch of embers into the scrap wood pile we were feeding from. Within a minute there was a half dozen smoking hot spots. Thankfully I had a plan in place. We had already filled the atv sprayer with water and had the tree sprayer wand mounted. I worked on sucking heat from the main fire and the mrs drove the atv around putting out hot spots. In case those 25 gallons were not enough I had 6 5 gallon buckets of water already staged to quickly refill the tank. Thankfully, they were not necessary and we got the fires put out within a couple of minutes. Point is, when it hits the fan, you don't have the time to set up the pump. It already has to be standing by.

I second the "Indian" brand fire pumps. I keep one at ready at my off grid cabin.

McMaster-Carr
 
   / fire pump #36  
Realizing that I am a bit late to the discussion; have you considered installing a dry hydrant at the top of the hill and running a permanent PVC line to the pond with the pump attached. If the need ever arose, you wouldn't need to run as much hose and the friction within the PVC should be less than woven hoses.

Not a firefighting expert by any means, but just a thought outside the box of the original query.
 
   / fire pump #37  
With a theoretical limit of 33.9 ft of lift for drafting, it makes much more sense to have the pump at the bottom of the hill. It's FAR easier to push water up the hill than it is to try and pull it. Practically speaking, lift is more in the 20-25 ft range
 
 
 
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