Backhoe Should a 448 Backhoe be able to lift a 4320?

[Seabeckredneck]

G'morning Gents,
I have a JD4320 with a 448 backhoe. I've been digging a drainage ditch and hit hardpan just a foot below the surface. I've been slowly scraping away at the hardpan so it is taking a long time. Ok, I just assume it doesn't have the power or the weight to penetrate the hardpan. Then for the first time since I've owned the outfit, I needed to lift the rear of my tractor with the backhoe to swing the rear end over only to find that I did now have the power to lift the rear tires off the ground. Shouldn't I be able to do this with the 448 or am I expecting too much? I appreciate any and all input.
Thanks from the PNW.
Chris

 

[boggen]

i know nothing about your tractor / backhoe...
3pt hitch backhoe should be able to lift rear of tractor. BUT.....

filled rear tires (with a fluid) to rear wheel weights and like. might be to much for backhoe to lift rear end.

if backhoe was created for say 3000PSI hydrualic system / tractor. and your tractor is only producing max of say 2000PSI of hydrualic pressure from pump. backhoe will never produce full power.

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be careful when trying to lift rear off ground with just the backhoe itself. (outriggers / leg on each side) that is a different story.

but trying to lift rear end can easily cause tractor to tip over.
be mindful of the front axles / tires. and would suggest putting down the FEL (front end loader) down, and my personal taste. is just barely take the pressure off the front tires with the FEL. if the FEL is up... and you try to lift rear end. your front axles may not be able to support weight. or you are at higher risk of tip over. due to how most tractors front axles angle up and down some.

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hydrualic leaks. such as seals and like both within hydrualic cylinders and in the valves, can cause loss of pressure and over all lifting capacity of backhoe would be less. raising the RPM's might get you around some leaking while tractor is running.

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a backhoe bucket with "tooth" or "teeth" on it. can make it much easier to deal with "hard compact dirt"

i normally dig a hole straight down. and then work from that hole to were ever. and when i get into harder compacted layers... i purposely put bucket edge just below the compacted layer and try to pull the compacted layer up. pulling the compacted layer up normally lets rocks / dirt / roots / concrete even to give and break some, and hopefully let ya keep on going to get a full bucket of dirt.

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one last thing. it is highly advised to have a "SUBFRAME" for 3pt hitch backhoes. if you do not have the sub frame, you are at a higher risk of "splitting" the tractor in half. unlike trucks / cars that have a full frame from front to rear. tractors normally just have a front frame for front axles, engine... everything else after that is normally transmission / final drive that do not have a frame and rely on bolts to hold everything together. a subframe for a 3pt hitch backhoe... is just that, frame work that extends normally from FEL (front end loader) frame work. all the way to rear end of tractor.

 

[Seabeckredneck]

Ryan,
Thank you very much for all that information! I didn't even consider the safety aspect of potentially tipping the tractor so I appreciate you bringing it to my attention. I only ask as I've seen some backhoe operators lift the rear end of the tractor to shift it over a bit. I will look into the hyd pressures you are suggesting.
My hard pan is just like trying to chip through 18 inches of concrete. It is tough but I'm getting through it slowly. I just think it should have more power. I need to do more research to see if there is an adjustment to increase hyd pressure.
This website is an invaluable resource and folks like you taking the time to help us less experienced people is greatly appreciated.
Have a great weekend!
Chris

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

It should lift the rear with ease, I had a 448 on a 3320 and it threw the tractor around pretty good. Does any other hoe function seem week?

Matt

 

[4570Man]

If you are worried about tipping the tractor over by lifting it with a backhoe, you better just leave the tractor parked. You didn't say what position the backhoe arm was in. Mine can't lift the tractor with the arm extended very far. With the arm in the closest position the backhoe can easily lift the tractor with loaded tires even with the FEL on the ground which moves the pivot point from the front axle to the bucket edge.

 

[ishiboo]

Ryan,
Thank you very much for all that information! I didn't even consider the safety aspect of potentially tipping the tractor so I appreciate you bringing it to my attention. I only ask as I've seen some backhoe operators lift the rear end of the tractor to shift it over a bit. I will look into the hyd pressures you are suggesting.
My hard pan is just like trying to chip through 18 inches of concrete. It is tough but I'm getting through it slowly. I just think it should have more power. I need to do more research to see if there is an adjustment to increase hyd pressure.
This website is an invaluable resource and folks like you taking the time to help us less experienced people is greatly appreciated.
Have a great weekend!
Chris

I think as a general rule, small CUT-based backhoes should not be used to move the tractor around, whether they're capable or not.

Commercial TLBs are designed for much more commercial/industrial work and better suited to safely doing that.

 

[jenkinsph]

I would agree that fluid filled tires or wheel weights may be too much for the back hoe to lift.

If the backhoe could not lift the tractor and get off the ditch it would not work for me.

 

[RoyJackson]

It should lift the tractor pretty easily. I've done it to test the backhoe...once. That was a vertical lift, no swinging to either side. The 4x20 series has a pretty robust mounting setup, by the way.
My tires (R-4s) are not filled. I'm not sure if Deere recommends filling tires if a backhoe is installed. I do seem to recall Kubota does not recommend filling the rear tires if a 'hoe is installed.
I would be leery about swinging the machine...but if you do, raise the stabilizers up some, but not all the way...and go slow.

 

[jloven]

I have a 448 backhoe on a 4720 tractor. The hoe will lift the rear of the tractor and move it around fairly easily. Make sure you have hoe about 2/3 extended out and lift with a combination down pressure and bucket roll. Keep out riggers about a foot or so off the ground. Should work fine.

 

[DK35vince]

I have a 448 backhoe on a 4720 tractor. The hoe will lift the rear of the tractor and move it around fairly easily. Make sure you have hoe about 2/3 extended out and lift with a combination down pressure and bucket roll. Keep out riggers about a foot or so off the ground. Should work fine.

Are your rear tires loaded ?