Flail mower or rotary cutter?

[smstonypoint]

So if a fifteen foot flail crop shredder with a one hundred horsepower tractor is used and traveling at four miles per hour it covers 352 feet per minute times the 15 foot width of cut; it covers 5280 square feet per minute and 316,800 per hour in a clear path divided by 43,560 which is the area of one acre equals a bit more than 7 and 1/4 acres per hour.

Because 43,550/5,280 = 8.25, the formula for theoretical capacity (acres/hour) simplifies to average ground speed (mph) * implement width (ft)/8.25.

The theoretical capacity has to be adjusted by a field efficiency factor to allow for turning, overlap, in-field equipment adjustments, etc. Ag. engineers have estimated field efficiency factors for various implements. I am not aware of published estimates for rotary cutters or flail mowers, but estimates for hay mowers are in the range of 75-85% (http://www.caes.uga.edu/departments/bae/extension/handbook/documents/capacity.pdf).

Assuming 82.5% efficiency, the formula for actual capacity (acres/hour) is average ground speed (mph) * implement width (ft)/10.

Steve

 

[aczlan]

From what FWJ said at the time, a flail crop shredder wouldn't have worked as they needed to be able to put it into transport position from the cab to get around obstacles (say a bridge abutment) and stopping to take 15 minutes to disconnect the mower, then hitch onto the end would be idiocy.
Also, generally speaking, a 15' crop shredder flail won't follow the contours of the ground worth beans and it would scalp like crazy.
There is a reason that those who use flails for ROW mowing have 1-2 mounted on the sides of the tractor and one behind the tractor, its because that is what works best.

Aaron Z

 

[LD1]

Shredding crops is nothing compared to mowing thick grass.

Let a well established lawn grow for a year and not mow it. Lawns, because they are cut so short, have grass that is growing very dense. Let that get 3' high and try to mow. (just did a job like this 2 days ago).

Shredding Corn or bean stubble....I'd be going about as fast as I could hang on. Dont require much power to cut that.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Shredding crops is nothing compared to mowing thick grass.

Let a well established lawn grow for a year and not mow it. Lawns, because they are cut so short, have grass that is growing very dense. Let that get 3' high and try to mow. (just did a job like this 2 days ago).

Shredding Corn or bean stubble....I'd be going about as fast as I could hang on. Dont require much power to cut that.

100% agree.

 

[leonz]

Being able to tow a 15 or 20 foot wide cut flail shredder on a narrow farm road with the width of the row crop tractors rear tires with turn signals and running lights using and end hitch is not idiocy. That is what the design was ment for.

Civil engineers designed roads with narrow verges and grass separation areas to allow the installation of pairs of two and four lane traffic to move from a to b and back to a. I cannot help that they do what they do. Some rights of way would allow for the quick mowing of these areas as they are wider than 15 feet in places like route 13 and route 81 in New York.


My friend Iron Horse uses a row crop tractor and a hammer flail shredder to mow down jungle in Australia for clients and he has talked about it extensively here on the forum.

I have posted links to videos of fifteen plus foot wide folding and non folding flail crop shredders cutting down mature fully grown sunflower crops in Europe for green manure crops so.........

 

[LD1]

Have grown sunflowers before too. I think that would be like mowing corn stubble.

I have not mowed anything that takes more HP/slower going than thick dense grass ~3' tall.

Field of ragweed, mustard weed, or any other "stemmy" vegitation.....piece of cake. Grass......takes lots of power.

 

[aczlan]

Being able to tow a 15 or 20 foot wide cut flail shredder on a narrow farm road with the width of the row crop tractors rear tires with turn signals and running lights using and end hitch is not idiocy. That is what the design was ment for.

I agree IF you are mowing a field or other open area, then moving to the next one. In that case it's not a big deal to switch to tow from the end in 5-15 minutes (and you will want to clear the trash off the top of the flail anyway).
The problem is that when doing ROW work you need to switch from "wide" to "narrow" 2-3 times per hour to get around obstacles (bridges, guardrails, berms, ditches, etc).

If it was a folding flail, that would work, but with a "end towed crop flail" switching to "narrow" will mean getting out of the tractor, unhooking the hitch, hydraulics and the PTO, moving to the end and reconnecting.
That wont fly when doing ROW mowing for at least three reasons:
1. The operators wont want to do it
2. It it will increase the risk of an operator getting hit by an idiot in a car/truck
3. It will eat up time (a minimum of 5 minutes compared to folding a flail or rotary mower in 30-60 seconds)

There is a reason most highway departments use tractor mounted folding flails or batwing mowers rather than end towed flails. It is that they work best for their situation.

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

Have grown sunflowers before too. I think that would be like mowing corn stubble.
I have not mowed anything that takes more HP/slower going than thick dense grass ~3' tall.
Field of ragweed, mustard weed, or any other "stemmy" vegitation.....piece of cake. Grass......takes lots of power.

Excellent point. I can mow much faster in stemmy stuff than I can in tall grass.

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

You are not explaining or do not know the entire story as it regards mr. farmswithjunk.

He was sold a bill of goods by the Alamo salesman that he bought his flail mower
from and his business suffered because of it.

I will look anyone in the eyes from Alamo that tries to refute my statement
simply because "they" being the "Alamo Industrial Americas saleman for Kentucky lied
to him about that flail mowers capabilities.

If they had sold him a Alamo Flail Crop Shredder the end would have been different as a flail crop shredder would have been more than a match for the conditions mowing to 2 inches in height it would have come out much differently and he would have required less time mowing.

If he had been sold the right flail mower being a flail crop shredder rated for specific frame size tractor that would have covered more acres per hour than any rotary and would have left a 2 inch height of cut.

This "Alamo" salesperson was only interested in making a sale and lost a customer for life BECAUSE he sold him the wrong flail mower claiming it would do everything for him in his contract mowing jobs. It was not going to happen and it did not happen.


In this example I believe Servis Rhino is wholly owned by Alamo if I remember correctly and their "Semi Mounted" (towed) 15 foot flail shredder which requires a 100 horse power frame size tractor tractor to operate it adequately as a semi mounted implement(towed) would have worked very well for his needs as it can cut low to the ground(one inch).

So if a fifteen foot flail crop shredder with a one hundred horsepower tractor is used and traveling at four miles per hour it covers 352 feet per minute times the 15 foot width of cut; it covers 5280 square feet per minute and 316,800 per hour in a clear path divided by 43,560 which is the area of one acre equals a bit more than 7 and 1/4 acres per hour.

AS I said he was sold a bill of goods and pie in the sky by this Alamo salesman
and there is no excuse for that and as a result he spent good money for a machine that was not big enough for the workload.

I am sorry they did this to him and if I was there it would not have happened.

I would have told him outright that the flail mower they are trying to sell you is too small and will cause you more work and fuel AND you need a flail crop shredder as you will cover more ground quickly in all mowing weather.


15 and 20 foot wide flail crop shredders are used to save time shred corn stalks, potato vines, cotton vines, sugar cane stubble, vegetable crop stubble and other field crops like wheat and alfalfa at the end of the season after harvest to cut the crop back to the ground to protect the roots of grass crops over the winter from freezing damage.

If anyone from Alamo wants to debate this and "attempt" to prove me wrong me fine, just keep it civil like I always have, and I always will.
here.

IIRC, it was a demo and the only money wasted was the money to pay for the tractor operators time.
Also, if a crop shredder would have been better, why didn't you suggest it vs saying:

Being grossly misslead AS you are inferrring and offering ones opinion based on ones 30 plus years personal experience with finish flail mowers are two different things.

A commercial mowing enterprise covering huge areas of highway median and verges and an end user with a specific area that will be decreasing over time due to potential housing development are two different things. Only he knows what the conditions are or may be on this is property not including any hidden objects that were dumped there or can be impacted and thrown by a rotary mower or rotary brush mower.

My simply describing the Vrisimo line of flail mowers or flail shredders previously as an option for what he needs was only a courtesy to him or her. I dont have a financial interest in any of this nor can one honestly compare highway mowing operations with an end user with a limited area of mowing.

The Vrisimo organisation has been building a high quality line of flail mowers for many years and the 6 Super" model flail mowers were rated with 40 to 60 horse power tractors for all six units.

IMO, there is a place for a flail, but there is an additional cost in maintenance, tractor power needed and time over using a similar sized rotary mower.

Aaron Z

 

[Fallon]

I got a 5' LandPride with my tractor. Sometime later I saw a Ford 917 (7' i think) on Craigslist for $100 before I really learned about flails, but got it anyway. It was missing knives & needed a new longer PTO. I found out some knives were hitting the hood. Cut out some of the hood & patched it up. I've got about $500 & 2 weekends of work into it & some more cracks to weld up. It's an old piece of junk, but I use it 90% of the time. It leaves a far nicer cut & is easier to maneuver, not to mention safer.

I still use the rotary for nastier stuff like woody brush & yucca, but the flail for anything grassy. I do have to go slower, but we are comparing 5' to 7' or so making overall cutting progress about the same.

All this is behind my 25ish PTO HP Kubota L3200. I love my flail.