Help selecting a Post Driver

[powerscol]

While I have not personally driven any posts (I use the post hole digger and tamper) I have been around a lot of post/fence work. One contractor always cut points on his posts. He had a jig that set on two saw horses that had the angles cut on the end. He dropped the post on and then used a small electric chain saw to trim the corners. Jig worked for square and round posts. If there were rocks, he had steel tips. he got them from somewhere, but only used if there was a problem.

Good luck as it looks like your wonderful wife has plans for you.

One question - what equipment did the contractor have to drive the posts?

 

[byrd]

While I have not personally driven any posts (I use the post hole digger and tamper) I have been around a lot of post/fence work. One contractor always cut points on his posts. He had a jig that set on two saw horses that had the angles cut on the end. He dropped the post on and then used a small electric chain saw to trim the corners. Jig worked for square and round posts. If there were rocks, he had steel tips. he got them from somewhere, but only used if there was a problem.

Good luck as it looks like your wonderful wife has plans for you.

One question - what equipment did the contractor have to drive the posts?

I've always used a manual post hole digger or a PTO auger on my tractor (which I borrow from a neighbor) as well. As far as I'm aware, the contractor that I spoke with doesn't use a post driver. They use a PTO auger and powered hand auger, which is definitely more labor intensive. So far, from my inquiries to friends for fencing contractor recommendations, no one has mentioned anyone that uses a post driver. That's not to say that there aren't any, they just don't seem to be as common as I would have thought.

 

[byrd]

powerscol's comment brought another question to mind...

Can a post driver set posts level enough and with enough accuracy to do a good three board fence? It seems that a lot of folks use drivers where high tensile wire will be used. In those cases, post spacing and the "plumbness" of the driven post aren't quite as important.

 

[Birdhunter1]

My dad bought a used Shaver HD8 back in the 70's and put up thousands of posts with it. Dad sold it a few years ago to a vineyard who we are friends with and I've recently borrowed it to slam some posts in. Last week the ground was dry and hard and though it took a while I put in a 6x8, three 6x6 and two 4x4 posts building corner structures, I sharpened a point on the posts (except the 4x4's) eyeball angles with a chainsaw. Over the weekend we had 6" of rain and yesterday I put in a 6x8 and 2 6x6 posts. Yesterday's job took me about 15 minutes total, they are all 3' deep in clay coil and solid as can be, no sharpening required.

This was done without springs on the driver and depended solely on the weight of the driver to set them. The old springs were broken and the new ones aren't here yet, the driver is manual adjust for plumb and it will drive a post as plumb as you set it. I am running it with a 1989 Ford 3910.

 

[ishiboo]

I have a Shaver HD10, and used it initially on my Kubota L3650 which is a much smaller tractor with lower flow. It worked awesome on the L3650, no problem. The driver does not use hydraulics to pound a post, just to lift the hammer. So in theory the lower flow will just increase the time by a little bit to drive a post. It was already faster than I needed it to be.

Go for it. You won't be disappointed.

Put it on the 3-point. Use your front loader and forks for carrying the posts.

 

[ishiboo]

Also, the 3-point mount may have changed over the years but mine used two "stubs" that had Cat 2 ends. It was as simple as removing them and sliding a common drawbar in the existing opening, and tightening the existing bolts to hold it in place.

I have clay/sand as well, and the HD10 does a great job... but I wouldn't go to an 8.

 

[byrd]

I have a Shaver HD10, and used it initially on my Kubota L3650 which is a much smaller tractor with lower flow. It worked awesome on the L3650, no problem. The driver does not use hydraulics to pound a post, just to lift the hammer. So in theory the lower flow will just increase the time by a little bit to drive a post. It was already faster than I needed it to be.

Go for it. You won't be disappointed.

Put it on the 3-point. Use your front loader and forks for carrying the posts.

That's for your input ishiboo! I was starting to get a little nervous regarding the HD-10. I double checked the specs listed at TractorData.com with the actual manual for my L4400DT, and the numbers don't agree with one another. TractorData.com lists the pump capacity at 11.9 gal/min, but the manual only lists it at 7.8 gal/min. I know that the lower flow will simple increase the time it takes to lift the driver, but I was getting a bit worried that dropping 4 gal/min might be a problem. We don't have the exact same model Kubota, but it's close enough that I feel pretty good about it. I won't be using it professionally so a little more time won't kill me. ...And since I'll be using it to install 3 board fencing which I'll want to be fairly straight and plumb, I assume that I'll be a bit more **** retentive and won't be driving the posts at an extremely high rate anyway.

While I think the HD-8 would probably work for me, the $780 difference between the HD-8H and HD-10H probably won't seem like much in the years to come. I can't say that I can remember a single time I've ever regretted opting for the more powerful option when purchasing machinery, tools, implements, etc.

Two questions for you ishiboo... Where did you plumb the return for the HD-10 to your L3650? Did you plumb it to the fill port on the transmission? That seems to be the most straight forward, easiest to access option on my L4400. Where you using a rear remote as the supply for your HD-10? I have a single rear remote that I don't typically use. I'm planning on hooking the supply of the HD-10 to one side of the rear remote and just bungee the lever into position while it's in use.

 

[ishiboo]

That's for your input ishiboo! I was starting to get a little nervous regarding the HD-10. I double checked the specs listed at TractorData.com with the actual manual for my L4400DT, and the numbers don't agree with one another. TractorData.com lists the pump capacity at 11.9 gal/min, but the manual only lists it at 7.8 gal/min. I know that the lower flow will simple increase the time it takes to lift the driver, but I was getting a bit worried that dropping 4 gal/min might be a problem. We don't have the exact same model Kubota, but it's close enough that I feel pretty good about it. I won't be using it professionally so a little more time won't kill me. ...And since I'll be using it to install 3 board fencing which I'll want to be fairly straight and plumb, I assume that I'll be a bit more **** retentive and won't be driving the posts at an extremely high rate anyway.

While I think the HD-8 would probably work for me, the $780 difference between the HD-8H and HD-10H probably won't seem like much in the years to come. I can't say that I can remember a single time I've ever regretted opting for the more powerful option when purchasing machinery, tools, implements, etc.

Two questions for you ishiboo... Where did you plumb the return for the HD-10 to your L3650? Did you plumb it to the fill port on the transmission? That seems to be the most straight forward, easiest to access option on my L4400. Where you using a rear remote as the supply for your HD-10? I have a single rear remote that I don't typically use. I'm planning on hooking the supply of the HD-10 to one side of the rear remote and just bungee the lever into position while it's in use.

Don't be nervous... it'll be perfect. The pump capacity is total flow, which is combined with the power steering... my NX6010 lists about 17 GPM but I think only about 10GPM is available for implements. Either way, the flow on the L3650 was more than sufficient and I didn't notice any change between the two. I spoke with either Kencove or Shaver when I did it and they too said it wouldn't be a problem at all.

I would definitely say go with the 10. In dry ground, with flat-ended posts, it still takes a while to get a post in. Pounding pointed posts into damp soil it will sink them faster than you can move.

On my L3650, the loader valve was attached to the tractor with hoses and I had no remotes... so I converted my driver (it was closed center) to power beyond, and simply disconnected one of the loader valve PB quick connects and attached it in series. The return needs to have NO restriction (if it did, it would slow the drop), I think the only place to plumb it is the transmission fills. Both the Kubota and Kioti had them on the back which were 1" or 1-1/4" NPT, so I went to a local farm store and used the black quick connects to connect it, they look like this:



On the Kioti, I have 3 remotes and two have detent so I simply plumb it into one of the detent remotes. Since the valve on my Shaver is now power beyond, I simply run both hoses to a remote. I don't believe you should dead head the remote for any period of time, so you probably want a similar setup. Power beyond simply returns all the fluid back to the remote all the time, unless you're using a function on the driver.

Post drivers IMHO are a bit more for field fencing than wood board fencing. It will be a bit tricky to get every post straight, and I would be prepared to hand dig or auger a few that get messed up. Make sure you take all the slack out of the 3-point and the mounting bracket on the post driver. You might find it helpful to build a better stand for the driver to sit on when it's pounding... but I'm not sure, mine had an older style bracket that I know they've changed. Fortunately it sounds like your soil will make this easy.

Good luck, you'll love the driver and you will have zero performance issues running it on that size tractor.

 

[byrd]

The return needs to have NO restriction (if it did, it would slow the drop), I think the only place to plumb it is the transmission fills. Both the Kubota and Kioti had them on the back which were 1" or 1-1/4" NPT, so I went to a local farm store and used the black quick connects to connect it, they look like this:

View attachment 478361

My L4400 has a 1-1/4NPT fill cap. I've never seen a coupler like the one in your image. I'll need to go take a look for one.

On the Kioti, I have 3 remotes and two have detent so I simply plumb it into one of the detent remotes. Since the valve on my Shaver is now power beyond, I simply run both hoses to a remote. I don't believe you should dead head the remote for any period of time, so you probably want a similar setup. Power beyond simply returns all the fluid back to the remote all the time, unless you're using a function on the driver.

I'm a total newb when it comes to hydraulics, so I'm not sure I fully under stand the description here. My understanding is that the Shaver drivers have 2 hydraulic lines. One larger return line that gets plumbed back to the transmission with NO restrictions (transmission fill port in my case). Then a smaller hydraulic line that supplies pressure to post driver control valve. To be power beyond, wouldn't I need to tap of a power beyond port on my tractor (FEL) valve to supply the post driver, then have a third hose that runs from a power beyond port on the post driver back to the transmission? My L4400 currently has nothing connected to the power beyond port on the valve, so there is just a hydraulic line that loops straight from the power beyond port back to the transmission.

From my reading, is seems common to supply the post driver with a remote that is bungeed open (I don't have a detent remote), but I might be misunderstanding, and certainly don't want to do anything that will cause any damage! I guess I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that the post driver valve would have a pressure relief that would dump back into the main return line if necessary. The shaver manual doesn't seem to give much info on the valve or plumbing instructions.

Post drivers IMHO are a bit more for field fencing than wood board fencing. It will be a bit tricky to get every post straight, and I would be prepared to hand dig or auger a few that get messed up. Make sure you take all the slack out of the 3-point and the mounting bracket on the post driver. You might find it helpful to build a better stand for the driver to sit on when it's pounding

I'm DEFINITELY nervous about this, which was one of the reasons I was looking at the hydraulic adjust instead of the manual adjust. My thought was that it might lend itself to more frequent adjustments. The drivers at Kencover come with a hitch mount that has feet that set directly on the ground to stabilize the driver while in use, so that should help I just can't see myself tamping in 2-4 hundred posts by hand over the next year though!

As a side note, I noticed that Kencove sells what they call a PD-10H which is made by Shaver and is essentially identical to HD-10H. They also sell a PD100H which appears to have all the same physical specifications as the PH-10H/HD-10H, but it's a bit cheaper AND comes with the hitch mount. They do not specify that the PD100H is made by Shaver, so I don't know if is a lower grade driver or not. They are roughly the same weight by the info provided. I think I'll need to call them to get more information.

Video of the Kencove PD100H driver: Kencove Post Drivers - PD1 and PD8 - YouTube

 

[ishiboo]

I'm a total newb when it comes to hydraulics, so I'm not sure I fully under stand the description here. My understanding is that the Shaver drivers have 2 hydraulic lines. One larger return line that gets plumbed back to the transmission with NO restrictions (transmission fill port in my case). Then a smaller hydraulic line that supplies pressure to post driver control valve. To be power beyond, wouldn't I need to tap of a power beyond port on my tractor (FEL) valve to supply the post driver, then have a third hose that runs from a power beyond port on the post driver back to the transmission? My L4400 currently has nothing connected to the power beyond port on the valve, so there is just a hydraulic line that loops straight from the power beyond port back to the transmission.

I was a total newb when I bought the post pounder... and then I found not even my tractor mechanic or anyone I knew could explain the correct way to plumb it. It was amazing how confused people are about hydraulics and how to properly hook it up.

Stock, yes the post driver is set up for closed center - it has a 1/2" or so supply line, and a very large (1") "return". I hesitate to call it a return, because on a skid loader it's called a case drain, and it's not really the same as a return with a remote. Skid loaders I believe typically are set up for closed center so they have no problem doing this, while tractors are set up for power beyond.

When you plug it into your tractor, you will do it exactly as planned. But since you have the remote bungie corded, the fluid will constantly be diverted to the post pounder valve... and then it will stop there until you activate the post pounder. You will be dead-heading the pump since it is used to operating in a "power beyond" manner where the flow is in a big circle and is only stopped momentarily when you max out a cylinder.

I think the best way to do it is to add the power beyond plug into the post pounder's valve, and then run it back into the remote. That way the pump is never dead-headed, the fluid is constantly flowing.

From my reading,is seems common to supply the post driver with a remote that is bungeed open (I don't have a detent remote), but I might be misunderstanding, and certainly don't want to do anything that will cause any damage! I guess I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that the post driver valve would have a pressure relief that would dump back into the main return line if necessary. The shaver manual doesn't seem to give much info on the valve or plumbing instructions.

This is still fine. There's no need to add a power beyond port to the tractor. (Though that's probably the ideal setup). I just think you should convert the post driver valve to power beyond.

I'm DEFINITELY nervous about this, which was one of the reasons I was looking at the hydraulic adjust instead of the manual adjust. My thought was that it might lend itself to more frequent adjustments. The drivers at Kencover come with a hitch mount that has feet that set directly on the ground to stabilize the driver while in use, so that should help I just can't see myself tamping in 2-4 hundred posts by hand over the next year though!

As a side note, I noticed that Kencove sells what they call a PD-10H which is made by Shaver and is essentially identical to HD-10H. They also sell a PD100H which appears to have all the same physical specifications as the PH-10H/HD-10H, but it's a bit cheaper AND comes with the hitch mount. They do not specify that the PD100H is made by Shaver, so I don't know if is a lower grade driver or not. They are roughly the same weight by the info provided. I think I'll need to call them to get more information.

Video of the Kencove PD100H driver: Kencove Post Drivers - PD1�� and PD8� - YouTube

Definitely get the hydraulic adjustment... you'll want it.

I'm pretty sure their drivers are made by Shaver.