Talk me out of or into a heavy flail

[Fallon]

Yes I have read all all several hundred pages of the massive flail thread, contributed to it a fair bit too...

I've got an old beat to **** 7' Ford 917 fail mower with side slicers. I bought it for $100 & have around $600 into it and a few weekends of cutting, welding, bearing replacement & what not. It still works well but it's probably suffered 30 years of abuse before I've started beating it up in the past couple. It's noisy due to several cracks in the hood I haven't gotten around to welding up & just generally getting worn out. It has side slicers on it which do good on grass, but gnaw on heavier brush a bit while failing to shred it as much as I like. I mostly do field & pasture mowing. I do hit a bit of brush & Yucca (think knee high aloe like cactus made out of burlap) so probably need to look at something beefier. I don't do lawns, but I want to get a decent cut & mulching action.

I had been lookig at a WoodMaxx FM-78h with duckfoots ($2,500) as a direct replacement for the 917 with a hydraulic sideshift & trash door. But I've got some heavier jobs on the horizion, so I really should be looking at a machine rated to 2" material instead of only 1".

I Pinged my local dealer about a LandPride flail that will eat 2" material all day long & got this:

FM2584 $4,975.00
Duckfoot Knives $1,617.00
Heavy Y Knives $2,040.00
Hammer Knives $1,372.00
Brush Rake $250.00

I pinged the Iowa farm guys & got:
I pinged Iowa Farm Equipment & they had 2 prospects they recomended
Peruzzo Elk 2000, 79 Flail Mower with HD Cast Hammer Blades (duckfoot), Manual Offset & PTO Shaft - $5,499
Weight is 970lbs

• Choice of various Y blades, duckfoot (only recommended for lawns) & hammers
• Optional Hydraulic Offset Kit (10 left or right) - $395.00
• Optional Front Gauge Wheel Kit - $395.00

Peruzzo Bull 2200, 86 Flail Mower with HD Cast Hammer Blades, Hydraulic Offset & PTO Shaft - $6,999

• Weight is 1,550lbs
• Hydraulic offset standard
• Hammers
• The cool looking hydraulic weed eater side cutter thing for getting up next to fences & obstacles adds on a way impractical $3k, way out of my budget for gadgets

Finally called them here today & had a chat. They are recommending hammers as giving a good cut on grass being able to occasionally eat 3"+ material. They can get dull, but can be sharpened, unlike the lighter duck foot knives, which only apparently work well on lawns. I forgot to ask, but I'm concerned I might end up with a green implement behind my orange tractor though.

A 7-8' Vrisimo 300 is over $10k from ETA or elsewhere I can find online.
I poked at the Alamo website & their Interstater & Super Heavy Duty Flails are only rated to 1", which is a lot less than I'd expect given their reputation. All their other gear seems to be hydraulic for mounting multiple flails on big machines. Haven't been able to find any prices around either.

Those are some pretty hefty prices that make me me choke a little. But it's the direction I should probably go for a machine that will last me for a few decades & stand up to abuse better than the 917. And given I paid only $100 for my old Ford 917, everything by comparison is insanely expensive. I was slightly concerned that the beefier knives/hammers will give me a much lesser cut on plain old grass, the Iowa guys seemed to put those fears to rest.

I think I've got it in my head that a Peruzzo Bull 2200, 86 might be in my future after my Christmas bonus shows up here soon. Looking for people to help rationalize my decision or talk me out of it (maybe into something else).

 

[Industrial Toys]

I have both. A 917 Fine cut and a Van Wamel Perfect ditch bank mower with 10 pound or so duck foot knives. No comparison. The stones around here destroy the duck foot knives immediately, with pieces of the casting breaking off. Then, they are useless.

 

[DieselBound]

Fallon, how much 2" material are you expecting to run across? Do you have any rough idea on what kind of revenues you might be seeing running one of these larger flails? W/o knowing this revenue part it's hard to say on a cost basis whether something makes sense or not.

 

[Fallon]

Fallon, how much 2" material are you expecting to run across? Do you have any rough idea on what kind of revenues you might be seeing running one of these larger flails? W/o knowing this revenue part it's hard to say on a cost basis whether something makes sense or not.

I'm looking at a grand or two per month during mowing season. I could up that number a bit if i felt so inclined with more advertising, but its a tradeoff between my free time & the side gig. I figure my operating costs arearound $35/hr & bid assuming I should be pulling in $75/hr. I'm guestimating I'm looking at a 5-7 year window as a return on investment. Probably at least a decade of service life. Not the greatest investment in the world, but not the worst i've ever done by a long shot. I have a prediliction for nice toys that are overbuilt.

I deal with a fair amout of Yucca Yucca - Wikipedia. its up to knee high & really fiberous with leaves that are over an inch. My 917 with Y knives really struggles with them. It tends to just uproot them or peel leaves off. I hit upwards to 1" stuff pretty regularly. I've had to pass on (or way overbid on) a few jobs that were a little to big for the 917.

Not to many rocks around here in general. Except for one lot, they got a bad deal on fill & ended up with a pile of softball sized rocks & concrete chunks around. The 917 bounced & sparked over em fine except for one jam that took out a pair of knives. May not keep with that job with the new mower. Easy to beatup the tool thats on its last legs & not worth much. Actually will be keeping the 917 around as a spare likely, could just keep using it for that rocky job.

 

[leonz]

Hello and good evening Fallon,


I would call the Vrisimo factory in California after 12:00 PM your time and ask for the sales department and ask for a direct to you price with shipping from the golden state before you make a final decision as an 8 foot heavy orchard and vineyard flail with heat treated side slicers and front and rear pneumatic caster wheels may be a better option for you as they will sell factory direct to you as well.
You will not have to pass on any job then but I would see about mounting landscape rake to the front of your mule like Iron Horse did with his Seppi flail mower in Australia to protect the front of the mule and the mules engine and cooling system.

 

[lpigott]

Is there some reason you aren't using or considering a rotary cutter? I think spending a ton of money on a flail mower, especially of the sizes, weights you mention would be crazy with just a 34 PTO HP tractor. For your tractor I would get a 5' medium/heavy duty rotary cutter. The tractor will be happy and you will cover ground much faster and get a great cut in one pass. You can get a nice new Land Pride RCF 2060 for around 2K and it will even match you tractor color. Cheaper options would work just as well and cost less but may be whatever color. I know if I were paying you by the hour and watched you creeping with a 6' plus flail and then having to make extra passes it would be a one time gig, if it lasted that long. Heck you can even get a more robust rotary cutter AND a separate rear finish mower for less than what you are considering spending on a high quality flail. You would be better equipped to handle different cutting requirements and do a better job at either end of the spectrum. I suggest borrowing a 5' rotary or buy a used one that you can resell without losing money and try it, I think you will be impressed. Yes I know lots of people run 6' rotary cutters with tractor of your size but I promise you it is not ideal. It is always better to have as much HP as you need and not push limits and you will be happier at days end.

 

[leonz]

Good morning lpigot,

Fallon needs a safer mower and he wants to maintain a good finish on property he mows as he is selling a service.
The last thing his clientele wants to see is mowed grass windrows that will either be blown around or just lay there get wet and kill the grass.
In my case my fathers Ford Jubilee ran a 7 foot JD25A with no problems knocking down 12-15 foot goldenrod and other weed scrub so power is not an issue.

 

[Fallon]

Ya, I'm sold on the safety aspect of a flail. I had a 5' LandPride rotary, 1860 I think. I got it brand new with my L3200. Within a year I picked up that old clapped out 7' Ford 917 flail for $100 not really knowing what I was getting. After I got it operational I realized i liked that old beat to **** flail a lot better than the rotary. The rotary only ended up getting used again for a bit when I blew the rotor bearings before I could get them fixed. I sold the rotary with the L3200.

Some of my customers seem to like the safety factor as well. So far everybody has been happy with the cut quality.

I generally do fixed price bids for jobs. I figure out how long I think it will take me, multiply it by my hourly rate. The add or multiply that by the pain in the *** factor or my interest in doing a given job. They then just get a firm price quote. So the customer isnt seeing an hourly rate & generally doesn't care how long it takes me.

 

[Fallon]

And yes, I have priced out a medium duty 6' LandPride, it came out around $2500. I was looking at a particular job that would likely have destroyed the 917, not to mention was woody enough it wouldn't have gotten cut well. I overbid the job knowing I'd have to pick up a new mower to get things done & obviously didn't get it.

I've been keeping an eye on Craigslist for a 6' or so heavy rotary. Only seen lighter duty machines & mostly 5' wide. Most were either near new prices or way to beatup.

In the past 3 years there have been under 30 flails on Craigslist, a third were huge crop choppers, a third were hydraulic side mount & the rest were old and or light duty. All but my 917 were way overpriced.

So after keeping my eye out for a year or so I've kind of given up. Really only looking at a new now.

 

[lpigott]

Ok if you are sold on spending a crazy amount of money and flails then why did you ask to be talked out of it. I and not nearly as sold on the safety of a flail over a rotary mower. When operated responsibly and with all guards in place they are very safe.

Ya, I'm sold on the safety aspect of a flail. I had a 5' LandPride rotary, 1860 I think. I got it brand new with my L3200. Within a year I picked up that old clapped out 7' Ford 917 flail for $100 not really knowing what I was getting. After I got it operational I realized i liked that old beat to **** flail a lot better than the rotary. The rotary only ended up getting used again for a bit when I blew the rotor bearings before I could get them fixed. I sold the rotary with the L3200.

Some of my customers seem to like the safety factor as well. So far everybody has been happy with the cut quality.

I generally do fixed price bids for jobs. I figure out how long I think it will take me, multiply it by my hourly rate. The add or multiply that by the pain in the *** factor or my interest in doing a given job. They then just get a firm price quote. So the customer isnt seeing an hourly rate & generally doesn't care how long it takes me.