Subsoiling with a 25hp CUT Advice

[cphilip]

I was digging around some old equipment left over here from our old Ford 5030. Trying to decide what I can use and what to sell or trade off for what I need. And I dug what I thought was a 9 tine Cultivator out of the honeysuckle and discovered it was a Fred Cane Cultivator Ripper instead. I was going to just get a smaller single shank Sub Soiler to do my little bit of deep relief in the garden to compliment the Tiller attachment but this thing got me to thinking...

Of course a 9 shank is way to big for this 25 horse tractor. So digging around (pun intended) I got to trying to figure out how many of the tines could this thing handle? I am getting mixed results. One side says 1 tine for every 5 HP. So that would mean I could drop 4 and run 5. But some say 1 per 10 HP. That would leave me not able to even run 3 tines. If so I guess its best to sell it and just by a single sub soiler?

I got all the bolts lose on it so I could, with some additional effort, try some different things. The cool thing about these Fred Cains is the design allows you to do all sorts of combinations by simply changing or dropping off pieces.

Has anyone run a Fred Cain on a 25 HP bigger frame Compact like this 2610 Kioti with filled tires? And if so what number of tines were you able to handle?

I mean its not like I got anything to waste here. Its already here and its either figure out if its useful for me or trade or sell it.

 

[sweettractors]

If you just want to cultivate up to 8 or so inches deep, 5 shanks would be about right. If you are thinking of sinking it to the beams, probably 1 shank would be enough(depending on type of soil). Ken Sweet

 

[oldnslo]

What type of soil and how deep are you wanting to go. My 24 HP runs out of traction way before it runs out of power pulling a single shank subsoiler 12 - 14 inches deep. with the 18" potato plow I usually have to have the FEL on and sometimes a load of dirt in the bucket so I can dig potatoes at full depth. I also shorten the right side link and use the potato plow like a mold board and turn my gardens. Again run out of traction way before I run out of power.

R1 tires are filled with Rim Guard

Rule of thumb for chisel plows in this area was 10- 15 HP per shank for 8 - 10" working depth. Soil is this area is a heavy clay loam mix that holds water well and gets hard if worked wet.

 

[cphilip]

It is heavy clay soil here. Id probably want to loosen that soil that packs up under the tiller which would be probably 8" I would guess. All of what I work or would want to work that is well worked soil Garden and food plots. But I seriously doubt this Fred Cain unit, although a nice find, is not at all suited to the way I am heading which is downsizing everything. It is however probably good trade fodder for where I am heading.

I think probably a one beam is where I should head. Y'all are sort of confirming that goal is still the most practical.

Im tempted to experiment with it though. Since I got all the nuts loose and can. But I have nothing but undisturbed ground available to try it on. Since the garden and food plots are currently occupied.

 

[sweettractors]

It is heavy clay soil here. Id probably want to loosen that soil that packs up under the tiller which would be probably 8" I would guess. All of what I work or would want to work that is well worked soil Garden and food plots. But I seriously doubt this Fred Cain unit, although a nice find, is not at all suited to the way I am heading which is downsizing everything. It is however probably good trade fodder for where I am heading.

I think probably a one beam is where I should head. Y'all are sort of confirming that goal is still the most practical.

Im tempted to experiment with it though. Since I got all the nuts loose and can. But I have nothing but undisturbed ground available to try it on. Since the garden and food plots are currently occupied.

Keep in mind while experimenting, that the width of point will have a big impact on how hard a shank pulls. For maximum depth, a point that is no wider than the shank would be best and for shallow cultivating a wider point would be better to disrupt weeds/grass. Ken Sweet

 

[cphilip]

Im not sure what the stock blades are but they do not appear that much wider than the shank.

How about this idea... I set it up with only three shanks?

One leading (forward) shank behind each rear wheel at about 5 foot wide. And then one center trailing shank in the middle.

If that does not pull very well then I abandon the whole idea of using it and resort to just selling it and buying a single shank Sub Soiler. There would be no point in keeping it if it did not work with at least 3 shanks. The advantages of a single certainly take over at that point.

Here are some pictures of what I am dealing with.

 

[sweettractors]

Im not sure what the stock blades are but they do not appear that much wider than the shank.

How about this idea... I set it up with only three shanks?

One leading (forward) shank behind each rear wheel at about 5 foot wide. And then one center trailing shank in the middle.

If that does not pull very well then I abandon the whole idea of using it and resort to just selling it and buying a single shank Sub Soiler. There would be no point in keeping it if it did not work with at least 3 shanks. The advantages of a single certainly take over at that point.

Here are some pictures of what I am dealing with.

If you decide to sell it, Here is something to give you the value of a new one. Ken Sweet
Sweet Farm Equipment - New & Used Farming Tools & Equipment | Tractor Equipment, Implements

 

[cphilip]

Whats your opinion on my 3 shank idea?

thanks for that Sweet. Im certain the used value would be at least if not more than half a new one? Im thinking its not more than say $400 - $500?

 

[jeff9366]

Im not sure what the stock blades are but they do not appear that much wider than the shank.

How about this idea... I set it up with three shanks?

One leading (forward) shank behind each rear wheel at about 5 foot wide. And then one center trailing shank in the middle.

In heavy clay I think three shanks is all you will be able to pull 8" to 12" deep.

I own a Field Cultivator and a Subsoiler. Pulling three (3) Field Cultivator tines requires about same power and traction as a single Subsoiler shank. Field Cultivators pull easier than Subsoilers due to horizontal orientation of points, which slip through soil easier than a blunt Subsoiler shank at 45 degrees. If you have considerable rocks, a blunt Subsoiler is ultimately the tougher of the two implements. I use my Dirt Dog Field Cultivator more often and far more hours, than my Subsoiler.

I consider a Field Cultivator an ag implement. I consider a Subsoiler a construction implement with ag applications.

I use Dirt Dog's (brand) iteration of a Field Cultivatortor regularly. The Fred Cain Field Cultivators are built a tad heavier than the Dirt Dog. My neighbor has a Fred Cain nine shank which he pulls behind a 45-horsepower, 4-WD John Deere. Sandy loam here in Florida.

My neighbor paid $475 for his Fred Cain Field Cultivator, used, in about the condition of yours, after we watched it on Craig's List for two months. I like this tough, versatile implement but they are a mystery to most.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/374012-field-cultivator-7-wide-craigs.html?highlight=

My Dirt Dog sinks into everything except packed pasture if the soil is MOIST. It works fine for food plots, which require three passes for initial seed preparation.

LINK: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/339095-dirt-dog-all-purpose-plow.html?highlight=

 

[cphilip]

Ok.... thats a good real life experience for me to apply. And considering that this Fred Cain is free.. more or less. I feel somewhat obligated to at least give it a try with three and see how it goes. It might be better application for my needs than a single subsoiler. Ill give it a go. Only problem I have is that I cannot try it out on already tilled soils that I intend its use for. But maybe a patch of pasture will give me some idea of its effectiveness if I don't expect too much and keep it shallow at first.

I do however see other applications for a sub soiler in the future for just as you suggest. Construction. Pulling a wire or pipe line or something like that could be handy.