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chriswheeler
Platinum Member
The land is almost flat. Old alfalfa field graded for flood irigation at a 1% grade.
Chris
Chris
JD 1207 Haybine
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cowboydoc
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Chris,
If it's an old alfalfa field you are going to have to plant some other crop like wheat or corn for a year or two. If you follow alfalfa with alfalfa it won't grow.
If it's an old alfalfa field you are going to have to plant some other crop like wheat or corn for a year or two. If you follow alfalfa with alfalfa it won't grow.
RickB
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I would try a 7 foot mo/co behind a 30 PTO HP tractor on the flat. I have run a 9' machine with a MF 135. I bet you get by OK. HP requirements are dictated by hay yield and ground speed. You can always shift down. Should also run a small capacity baler OK.
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chriswheeler
Platinum Member
cowboydoc,
I agree on the soil thing. We are going to have a soil test done this spring and see what it needs. Would like to plant this fall in Sept. or Oct. Corn or wheat doesn't do well here, not sure why. We see wind almost every afternoon to some degree. Common crops here is alfalfa, potatoes, onions, garlic and some others I havn't itentified yet. RickB, I guess that is what I would like to do. The JD 1207 is supposed to be a 7' cut, and I understand that is to small for someone who makes money this way. Hopeing that 7' cut will = less required HP and have less machine weight. Need to look at mo/co and see what might fit our needs. Object is keeping overall investment from becoming outragous. Being a city boy, havn't had a chance to get close to any of these, and don't know what would be required to properly power and safely pull one. It would be nice to find a spec. sheet on a 1207 for weights and requirements. I agree that once I get past the cut and condition issue, need to look at what might be the smallest square baler that might be somewhat easy to find and keep running. Input I have had so far says for price and function look at JD 14T ( older) and JD 24T ( a little newer ) Only thing I am sure of is there will be quite a bit of learning going on before we make any move to buy something. The worn out equipment issue Cowboydoc mentions will come into play somewhat. Think this might be a little less of a issue for a retired machinist that can cut gears in his garage with more time than money.
Chris
I agree on the soil thing. We are going to have a soil test done this spring and see what it needs. Would like to plant this fall in Sept. or Oct. Corn or wheat doesn't do well here, not sure why. We see wind almost every afternoon to some degree. Common crops here is alfalfa, potatoes, onions, garlic and some others I havn't itentified yet. RickB, I guess that is what I would like to do. The JD 1207 is supposed to be a 7' cut, and I understand that is to small for someone who makes money this way. Hopeing that 7' cut will = less required HP and have less machine weight. Need to look at mo/co and see what might fit our needs. Object is keeping overall investment from becoming outragous. Being a city boy, havn't had a chance to get close to any of these, and don't know what would be required to properly power and safely pull one. It would be nice to find a spec. sheet on a 1207 for weights and requirements. I agree that once I get past the cut and condition issue, need to look at what might be the smallest square baler that might be somewhat easy to find and keep running. Input I have had so far says for price and function look at JD 14T ( older) and JD 24T ( a little newer ) Only thing I am sure of is there will be quite a bit of learning going on before we make any move to buy something. The worn out equipment issue Cowboydoc mentions will come into play somewhat. Think this might be a little less of a issue for a retired machinist that can cut gears in his garage with more time than money.
Chris
Charolais
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I expect you can use the 1207 if the land is flat. If your hay is thick you may have to slow down a little for the HP of the tractor. But in normal hay it should be just fine. Just don't get in a position where the conditioner will be pushing the tractor.
The 1217 I had was a good machine. I used non-clog guards and it was great for downed hay. I had to replace a shaft in the wobble box. I figured that when I bought it as it was used and had a leak on the driven(input) shaft when I got it. I think I ran it 4 years before that replacement.
On bit of advice before you buy any conditioner. Make sure the rolls are not bent. If either roll is bent you'll be replacing bearings pretty regular.
The rolls are also timed if it's like the 1217 and I think it is. I've worked on a 1209 and the only difference was it's width and had bigger bearings. Your knowledge of gear work will come in handy there if it's worn enough that you can't get the rolls timed proper. The L shaped gear box has 3 gears in it. When they have worn enough you'll have to much slack in the rolls and then they'll be touching when turning with the crop going through. Won't be able to get that slop out with the timing plate then. That'll speed up bearing failure also. They are good machines but it's a must to have them timed proper.
The 1217 I had was a good machine. I used non-clog guards and it was great for downed hay. I had to replace a shaft in the wobble box. I figured that when I bought it as it was used and had a leak on the driven(input) shaft when I got it. I think I ran it 4 years before that replacement.
On bit of advice before you buy any conditioner. Make sure the rolls are not bent. If either roll is bent you'll be replacing bearings pretty regular.
The rolls are also timed if it's like the 1217 and I think it is. I've worked on a 1209 and the only difference was it's width and had bigger bearings. Your knowledge of gear work will come in handy there if it's worn enough that you can't get the rolls timed proper. The L shaped gear box has 3 gears in it. When they have worn enough you'll have to much slack in the rolls and then they'll be touching when turning with the crop going through. Won't be able to get that slop out with the timing plate then. That'll speed up bearing failure also. They are good machines but it's a must to have them timed proper.
rambler
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Horse people tell me that horses prefer the "conditioned" hay. If that is the truth then cutting with a sickle bar is out.
Chris )</font>
'Horse people' prefer conditioned hay. Horses just like fresh good hay. For your own horses, forget the conditioner for grass hay. If you are doing alfalfa, then the condioner makes _much_ better quality hay. Without condioining, the alfalfa leaves dry, the stem stays damp. By the time the stem is dry enough to bale, the leaves fall off any you are baling alfalfa stems only - good for bedding is all.
New conditioner rolls with the rubber on them run $1500 each. Any condioner without good rubber on the rolls is not fixable - realistically.
Your 30 hp tractor might have enough power to run a 7' on such a small flat area. I've run a 1209 with a 50 hp tractor, and the power was ok, the issue becomes weight of the tractor - the condioner wants to be the tail wagging the dog.
Also, mower conditioners & hay balers are miserable to run without live pto - more so if they are underpowered a bit. What does your tractor have?
Growing alfalfa is an art form, learn a lot before you try to plant any. A good stand is worth a lot, a poor one messes you up for 2 years - need to kill it, wait for it to lose the toxins, and replant again. Do it right the first time.
The 14T can work with your tractor for small plot (weight of tractor & live pto would be a concern). Many New Holland balers are also good, from #69 - 270 models would be modern design & use low power. I would stick to either JD or NH balers, they figured out knotters first, and have much better reputations.....
--->Paul
Chris )</font>
'Horse people' prefer conditioned hay. Horses just like fresh good hay. For your own horses, forget the conditioner for grass hay. If you are doing alfalfa, then the condioner makes _much_ better quality hay. Without condioining, the alfalfa leaves dry, the stem stays damp. By the time the stem is dry enough to bale, the leaves fall off any you are baling alfalfa stems only - good for bedding is all.
New conditioner rolls with the rubber on them run $1500 each. Any condioner without good rubber on the rolls is not fixable - realistically.
Your 30 hp tractor might have enough power to run a 7' on such a small flat area. I've run a 1209 with a 50 hp tractor, and the power was ok, the issue becomes weight of the tractor - the condioner wants to be the tail wagging the dog.
Also, mower conditioners & hay balers are miserable to run without live pto - more so if they are underpowered a bit. What does your tractor have?
Growing alfalfa is an art form, learn a lot before you try to plant any. A good stand is worth a lot, a poor one messes you up for 2 years - need to kill it, wait for it to lose the toxins, and replant again. Do it right the first time.
The 14T can work with your tractor for small plot (weight of tractor & live pto would be a concern). Many New Holland balers are also good, from #69 - 270 models would be modern design & use low power. I would stick to either JD or NH balers, they figured out knotters first, and have much better reputations.....
--->Paul
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chriswheeler
Platinum Member
We are trying to educate ourselves in this area and it looks like there will be much to learn. Rambler, we were planning on planting a alfalfa/grass mix, local recomended mix is 60/40. Nevada has a rather hot dry climate, but even so a conditioner has been recomended because of the alfalfa in the mix for the reasons you have stated. It is begining to sound like my idea isn't so bad, but the problem looks like the size and weight of the tractor will be. Perhaps I should start thinking about upsizeing the tractor 1000+ lbs and 15-20 HP. Think we will still plant next fall and pay a local outfit to custom bale for the first year or two, see how that works out. A even bigger tractor might open up some other options as well, but that to be considered when we get to that point. Does anyone know what a JD 1207 or 1217 might weigh??? Also what a 14T or a 24T might weigh. Appreciate all answers so far, just a city kid trying to get a education for this transition we are making. Looking forward to the move,
Chris
Chris
tude
Silver Member
14T - With PTO 2490 Lbs.
14T - With Engine 2725 Lbs.
14T - With Engine 2725 Lbs.
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chriswheeler
Platinum Member
Thanks Tude,
Weights weren't far off what I'd guessed. What I hadn't considered though is " with engine" PTO HP would be out of the discussion and it would be a matter of being able to safely handle that much weight with a 3300 lb tractor. ( that is with loader ) Might have to give this further thought. Thanks again,
Chris
Weights weren't far off what I'd guessed. What I hadn't considered though is " with engine" PTO HP would be out of the discussion and it would be a matter of being able to safely handle that much weight with a 3300 lb tractor. ( that is with loader ) Might have to give this further thought. Thanks again,
Chris
tude
Silver Member
The John Deere operator manuals from the 1950's are interesting. Instead of specifying a certain minimum amount of PTO horsepower, the 14T manual spec for power required states "John Deere Model "40" or Equivalent." The John Deere 40 tractor test rating was 17.16 drawbar HP and 21.45 belt HP with a weight of 3000 lbs.