Firefighting-PTO pumps, nozzles etc.

[patrickg]

I'm interested in firefighting with my CUT and was wondering what recommendations for PTO driven pumps, nozzles, etc I might get.

Pasture burning is experiencing a strong comeback as a management tool and I intend to employ it. To do so safely I need a good mobile water based fire suppression capability and my tractor is the best candidate.

I have a pasture spray rig but its accessory hose and nozzle is for spraying ag chemicals and is way too puny to use against a wind driven pasture fire. I was thinking along the lines of changing out the roller pump to a more capable unit and plumbing in the capabillity of using an alternate hose and nozzle.

I have been told the absolute minimum effective spray rig must supply more than 6-7 gal/min with at least 125 or more PSI through at least a 3/4 ID hose (1 inch being better.)

Horsepower to spin the pump isn't a problem as I have about 40HP @540 RPM at the PTO. I have seen a terrific 1 ton truck mounted fire suppression rig that simultaneoulsy operated two hoses larger than 3/4 inch ID and it had a 20 HP gas engine driven pump.

TIA for your consideration and comments,

Pat /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[tc35dforme]

<font color="blue"> to use against a wind driven pasture fire.</font> /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

From experience here in the northeast, where we would see very few high volume 'brush/pasture' fires ( most under 1-5 acres total burn area ) I wouldn't even think of addressing what you describe as a <font color="blue"> wind driven pasture fire.</font> with anything less than multiple 50 - 100 GPM hoselines with a steady water supply. Most forestry units operate on a 1 1/8" diameter hoseline capable of flowing between 50 - 75 gallons per minute.

How many gallons of water will you carry ?? Can you out-run a flame front travelling at 30-40 MPH if you can't control it ?? Are you building effective fire breaks ??? Are you manually managing the fuel load to control the burn ??

Burning grass is one thing, the fuel load is limited and the flame travels low and relatively slow. Pasture, containing brushy growth and small trees can have huge fuel loads and really get cranking.

BE CAREFUL...Get some advice from your local authorities. You may even get their support and help with a 'training burn'.

 

[khd]

Bailey's has mobile fire supression rigs if your are inetrested in outlaying the money or to at least give you some ideas on specs.

Baileys

Go: Online store/First Aid Safety Fire Fighting/...

Regards,
Kevin

 

[gabby]

I built one with a hydraulically driven pump and two industrial 275 gallon tote tanks, all mounted on a 4x8 treated plywood platform that sits in a single axle military trailer. It has 3 spray patterns - left, center, right, plus a fourth valve for a 3/4" water hose hand line. I didn't build it to fight fire but I found out it works darn well for it. The hydraulically driven pump is sweet. Made my own nozzles by sawing slits in PVC pipe caps.

I also have a bigger water wagon, 1000 gallon former liquid nitrogen spreader wagon, with a big old Berkeley pto pump mounted in the front and a single 4-inch outlet pipe that sprays to one side. That baby throws a flood. It empties the 1000 gallon tank in 3 to 4 minutes. It's for wetting arenas in a hurry.

For filling I use city water with a 2-inch filler valve so I can fill in a hurry. Filling with a water hose takes Forever!
Gabby

 

[stevepio]

I thinking you need one of these

Little truck

for starters...

 

[Jubal]

Highly recommend purchasing and reading this book before becoming involved with prescribed burns.
http://www.prairienursery.com/catalog/bok_howmanage.asp
Jubal

 

[Taylortractornut]

Im building a fire and irrigation pump out of an old Gorman Rupp Pump that came out of a little 1 ton Ford pumper. It has a step up gear box and all built onto it. I made a frame for it and set up the pto shaft. It now needs a few other things like the intake and exhaust pipes. its 2.5 inch inlet and outlet. I mainly want it for irrigation and rfilling the watter wagon at the Landfill we run. THe tank is a 1000 gallon fuel tank and Im mounting skids on it to go onto the roll off trucks we use. Ill just fill them and let them water the roads or the wildflower plots. Ill also beable to roll off the tank in a location then get the tractor and pump and hook it up to my surplused sod farm sprinklers and dampen the grass and controll ourr burning.

 

[sideboiler]

Patrickg, I am a career fire fighter and work in both structure and wildland fire fighting. For wildland fires you need to conserve your water supply. I would suggest a centrifugal pump for firefighting because it is not positive displacement. You can shut off the nozzle without shutting down the pump. I believe roller pumps tend to be positive displacement pumps so it is best to have a pressure relief valve line from the discharge side to the pump to the intake side to circulate water when you shut down the nozzle. That being said, many farmers use roller pumps for water when doing field burns. The right model can develop a lot of pressure for little cost. You just have to shut down the PTO when you shut off the nozzle. For the best fire streams you need to have about 100 psi at the nozzle (assuming that the nozzle is built to operate best at 100 psi - most, but not all, are). I would recommend that you run at least a 1" discharge line. You can get red lexan plastic adjustable 1" fire fighting nozzles for about $15 each. They put out about 20 GPM at 100psi. That is a useful size for wildland fires. I would come off the 1" pump discharge with a 1" gated wye (Y). On one side of the Y I would attach your 1" hose. On the other side, I would put on a 1" to 3/4" reducer and run garden hose with an adjustable brass nozzle. That way you can conserve water when you don't need the larger hose. If a 1" discharge pump is too small for your needs, you can go with an 1-1/2" discharge pump with a 1-1/2" gated Y attached. You could then attach a 1-1/2" fire hose to one side with a red lexan adjustable nozzle that puts out about 65 GPM at 100 psi. The other side of the Y could have a reducer to 1" and either a 1" hose attached or a second reducer to 3/4" with a garden hose attached. Remember, a 65 GPM water flow will drain a 250 gallon tank in 4 minutes. If you get into hose lays greater than 50 feet you will have to take into account friction loss of the longer hoses. 100' of 1-1/2 inch hose will have about 15 psi friction loss with the nozzle flowing 65 gpm at 100 psi. If you are laying hose up a hill, you will lose about 5 psi for every 10' of elevation gain. In short, I would recommend a pump that can put out your required gallons per minute at a minimum of 125 psi. A 150 psi pump would be better.

When fighting wildland fires, it is safest to fight the fire from upwind which means you will be either in the burned over area or on the flank of the fire. Be especially careful about getting above the fire on a hillside as it can travel very fast uphill. Do not get in front of a wind driven fire unless you are a mile away with a tractor cutting a disc line for a fire break. Better yet, since you are going to work on a planned fire, cut your fire breaks before you light the fire.

The thread type on 1-1/2" and 1" fire hose fittings will be National Standard Thread (NST). You will probably need an adapter at the pump from pipe thread to NST. 3/4" hose uses the common garden hose thread on the fittings.

 

[gabby]

Here's my 550 gallon water wagon with hydraulic centrifugal pump.

 

[gabby]

Another try