Great idea for laying pipe or cable...

   / Great idea for laying pipe or cable... #21  
I think I would mark my sprinkler locations (and elbows/Tees), dig a hole with a shovel and then connect the dots with the plow/pipe.

One would have starting/ending places and a hole to work in.

Just an Idea.
 
   / Great idea for laying pipe or cable... #22  
I like that idea.

I will have several places where the lines will need to cross each other, plus will need to cross my cable TV line, which is but a few inches deep.

I'm thinking I will try to rig some gage wheels to try to control the depths of different lines.

THANKS.
ron
 
   / Great idea for laying pipe or cable... #23  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I can see how this would work with wire or cable and or flexible pipe but I dont see how it would work with PVC as some have stated they are using. Are you gluing all the joints together and laying them down behind where they need to be buried and then pulling them in? )</font>

Yes. You pull the glued-up PVC pipe underground like a rope. No kinking, no reels, no barb fittings. I've used both roll pipe and PVC, and PVC works much better. Plus you can get telescoping dresser couplings in PVC for cutting into or repairing a line.

gabby
 
   / Great idea for laying pipe or cable... #24  
Here's a picture of my plow foot. The pulling head on the pipe is just a cap drilled for an eyebolt.
gabby
 

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   / Great idea for laying pipe or cable... #25  
Nice rig gabby.

I'm finishing up the dozer, groundwork, and fencing for five new cattle paddocks that'll be used for rotational grazing. I developed several springs in one pasture and captured that water into a couple of 4" pipes that will flow into a cistern. I also have another strong year 'round spring available. I plan to harvest rainwater off the house and barn (total of 9,000 sf metal roofing) into a couple of high elevation buried cisterns.

I have two creeks running through my place, and have put in rock-covered geotextile material as emergency water access points for the cattle, but don't think I'll need to use them except during a drought. I will water the cattle in the paddocks using the fresh spring water and harvested rainwater.

My intention is to link all the various springs and cisterns into a connected watering system network that will mostly gravity feed the watering troughs in the paddocks. If needed I'll use a couple of solar pumps (with battery backup) to lift the water from one of the springs up to one of the cisterns.

The difficult part of my project is that nothing on my place is completely level or flat and big rocks could be my main cash crop.

The water lines to my paddocks will run one-half mile in each direction from the cisterns. One line will be about 2,800' long and the other will be about 2,650' long with risers in each paddock.

From my calculations it looks like I'll have to use 2" pipe in order to compensate for the friction loss over such long distances. Also, the water lines will follow the horizontal curves of the terrain, but there won't be any vertical high spots in the run and so no worry about air locks in the line. The cisterns will sit 40'-50' higher than any paddock waterer so there will be enough pressure to move the water.

So, my questions are: 1). Have you ever put down large diameter (2" Schedule 40) PVC using your rig? 2). If so, how did you handle the horizontal curves and bends?

I've been thinking about the various ways to lay these lines. I'm located in Central Virginia on the front range of the Blue Ridge Mountains and the lines will have water in them all year, so I'll have to be down about two feet. My first thought was to just rent a trencher and go with the open trench approach and put in 2" flexible black poly. Another thought was to hire a local pipe laying company to do the job. On the other hand, if I could somehow adapt your approach, I could probably save a couple of bucks.

All thoughts appreciated.

Ed
 
   / Great idea for laying pipe or cable... #26  
Hey Ed,

Sounds like quite a setup you're building.

Yes I have plowed 2" pipe but not for long distances, plus I have put pretty good curves in it.

I can't believe you need 2" diameter pipe. I have a line that goes at least 3,000 feet to a water trough for 135 head of cows and calves. It's 1" reduced to 3/4" for the last several hundred feet and it keeps the 150 gallon trough w/float valve full with no problem. I bet that doesn't calculate, so don't get too hung up on your calculations. It's city water so there's plenty of pressure.

Your biggest challenge is the 2' depth. You will definitely have to make multiple passes with a stout plow and a stout tractor before going "live" with the pipe, but it will be much quicker and cheaper than trenching.

Trenching is not an option for me because you can never completely fill the trenches and they get boggy and settle and become potential leg-breakers for galloping horses. None of this happens with plowing. Good luck!
gabby
 
   / Great idea for laying pipe or cable... #27  
Thanks for the reply gabby. Yeah, I've got a couple of major projects going here.

The 2" lines are for dealing with gravity flow friction loss over long distances. There won't be any pressure in the lines other than gravity flow from the elevated cisterns. No city water pressure here. Only a drilled well for the house and watering cattle from my house well ain't an option (according to the lady who makes my lunch).

I do have one additional drilled well that was previously abandoned, but hesitate to reopen it because the water was reportedly bad (lots of iron). Don't want to drill additional wells if I don't have to. Drilling 450' through solid granite gets very expensive very quickly.

No problem getting a stout tractor. Could use the big NH, but have been thinking about using a Cat 941B track loader. If a 941B won't pull the pipe, nothing will. I'm also thinking about using a modified chisel plow behind the track loader and lay the pipe in sections. Basically, lay the pipe to the first paddock, put in the riser, lay the pipe for the next section and so on. The track loader and chisel plow should get me down to 2' fairly easily and move the rocks out of the way at the same time or simply cut through the shelf rock. I'm thinking I may need a connection between the loader and the cap on the pipe that's more than just an eye bolt. Any suggestion about strengthening the connection link?

I've trenched a few lines for drain fields where I put slotted pipe and rock and then filled the trench and mounded the top somewhat. I've let the dirt settle for a while and then driven a tractor down the center of the line to compact the dirt. Never had a problem mashin' the line or with critters in those fields.

In one very large (50'W X 10'D) and long (400') ditch, I built underground water traps by putting 20+ tons of #1 crushed rock with 4" PVC sewer pipe Y connected to 4" solid pipe into pits at two different locations and connected those lines to outflow lines. Your basic old fashioned blind ditch updated to capture the water from six small springs in the ditch.

Also installed an 8" underground line in the ditch to carry surface water runoff from a state highway culvert down to a creek. I used EDPM pond liner in the pits under the crushed rock and also put EDPM on top of the water collection pipes. Then I filled the entire ditch with several hundred tons of dirt covering up all the lines and crushed rock. The end result looks like a typical pasture waterway running down through the field, but water flows out the pipes at the bottom of the former ditch and will be collected into a concrete cistern. Now, all I need to do is get the grass seed down.

Ed
 
   / Great idea for laying pipe or cable... #28  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The 2" lines are for dealing with gravity flow friction loss over long distances. There won't be any pressure in the lines other than gravity flow from the elevated cisterns. )</font>

I don't get it. How much gpm flow do you need? How many cows are you watering? Can't you leave the line open and use a float valve at the tank and let it gravity flow as needed? Friction loss would be negligible.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If a 941B won't pull the pipe, nothing will. )</font>

The pipe has very little drag. The plow is the load factor.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm also thinking about using a modified chisel plow behind the track loader and lay the pipe in sections. The track loader and chisel plow should get me down to 2' fairly easily and move the rocks out of the way at the same time or simply cut through the shelf rock. )</font>

I can't comment on the rocks. I don't have rocks here.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm thinking I may need a connection between the loader and the cap on the pipe that's more than just an eye bolt. Any suggestion about strengthening the connection link?)</font>

Protect it from rocks with metal wings on each side. I have never has an eye bolt fail due to the friction load.

gabby
 
   / Great idea for laying pipe or cable... #29  
gabby

These are grass-finished feeder steers, not cows, on rotational paddocks. Average daily water consumption planned at 20 gal/steer. A staggered stocking rate used to provide staggered harvest cycles. Initial stocking rate 20 steers incrementally increased to about 200 steers after 24 months. Total daily water needs planned at 4,000 gallons for 200 steers.

My faulty memory recollects that free flowing gravity fed water lines with ~10 PSI out of an elevated cistern at 30'-40' using a one inch pipe and flowing into a level line will lose or have significantly diminished water flow somewhere around the 1,000' point because of friction resistance in the pipe. At 2,000' a one inch line would output dribbles.

Its been a while since I looked up that info on a flow restriction table, but I think I'm in the ball park. Maybe there's a plumbing expert here than can support or refute the numbers. Also, putting down a two inch pipe isn't really that much more expensive and shouldn't be much more difficult to install than a 1" or 1 2/2" pipe. Then the pipe capacity would be in place for sure.

Float valves certainly work with gravity fed systems. I'd like to use something like Ritchie waterers, but don't think I'll have enough water pressure available at 2,800' to make one work properly. My initial setup uses 300 gallon Balen tanks in each paddock filled from risers through the drain hole and controlled by float valves. The risers are connected to the 2" header lines we've been discussing. Most likely the Balen tanks will be replaced by deep earth ground heat culverts in order to eliminate freezing problems.

Ed
 
 
 
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