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  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    1,390
    Location
    South Central Oklahoma
    Tractor
    Kubota Grand L4610HSTC

    Default Ballast/Counterweight

    Regarding the kubota Grand L-4610HSTC which is really light in the backsides: The tractor is rated for about 2700 lbs. maximum on the 3 point hitch. I have used my very heavy box blade or the weight and leverage of my HD 6' brush hog as counterweight to keep from standing this little tractor on its nose (as easily). Sometimes there just isn't room to manuever with a big brush hog on back or even the box blade so the pallet forks or the FEL bucket capacity goes way down to a dissapointing miniscule unmanly figure.
    In the past, others have posted of building concrete counterweights to attach to the 3PH. Sounds attractive to me, but how heavy? I thought a set of 3 weighing say 500, 1000, and 1500 lbs or a set of two at 750 and 1500 would be good. I like to be conservative and not carry around too much weight if it isn't needed. Ideas?
    My next thought was that I could build one weight with 3PH attachment and add supplemental weights, maybe designed to be loaded using the pallet forks. This rapidly degenerated into thoughts of buying or building a "Carryall" platform or similar and setting on weights as needed, probably cast from concrete with lifting provisions to fit pallet forks. So now I am vacilating while being tossed on the horns of a dilemma: Why do folks make counter weights to fit a 3PH when/if a 3PH carryall platform thingy might do the job well and have other uses (I like mult- use tools if the trade offs aren't too bad - often multi-purose tools don't do anything really well).
    I thought perhaps the carryall would still be larger (stick out more) and limit manueverability but thought I could shorten it with removable lower supports so that it could be used in a half size or full size by just wing boltingl on extensions with overlaping doublers for strength.
    Any comments from users of any of the above will be appreciated, especially anyone having experience with both carryall thingies and dedicated counterweights.




  2. #2
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    1,764
    Location
    Southern VT, Southern ME
    Tractor
    John Deere 4100 HST /410 FEL, R4s

    Default Re: Ballast/Counterweight

    Patrick, a carryall loaded down with weight. Why not. [img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Now that's just what the wife's stepdad uses. A carryall. Homemade one too, reinforced with side braces
    along with a 55 gal drum filled full of bank run mix of stone and gravel secured down with chain and binders. Now it ain't the prettiest thang but gets the job done. Not for a loader counterweight but as added ballast along with loaded tires for snowplowing. Usually froze up solid along with last season's weed's too.

    2 things come to mind right away. I think the carryalls like KK sells are only rated for something like 1000 lbs max. Their pallet forks are much stronger though, and then how to secure the load so it doesn't move.

    Does seem that using concrete for weights has its advantages too. Doesn't cost a lot, high weight ratio per cu. ft., making a form and mixing doesn't take much in the way of special tools or expensive equipment for a DIY job

    Come to think of it there's a couple of concrete weights for a weight box hanging around the place too!

    DFB


  3. #3
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    963
    Location
    Tescott, Kansas
    Tractor
    Kubota M6040/cab

    Default Re: Ballast/Counterweight

    patrickg
    I use a 3 point concrete weight they I made. I like it for heavy duty jobs. the size is small enough that it don't getin the way and heavy enough to keep the rear end on the ground about 1700LBS


  4. #4

    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    415
    Location
    Michigan
    Tractor
    Kubota B7100HST & Kubota L4610HST w/FEL

    Default Re: Ballast/Counterweight

    patrickg
    Did you load the rear tires? That's all I need for the majority of rear counter-weight. What about a "cheapo" box scraper modified w/ floor for additional weight & some tool space. Maybe 5' so it's NOT as wide as the rear tires, providing less restrictions?
    regards
    Mutt


  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    1,390
    Location
    South Central Oklahoma
    Tractor
    Kubota Grand L4610HSTC

    Default Re: Ballast/Counterweight

    DFB, DDT, and Mutt,
    Thanks for the replies, guys. Implements like the box blade and brush hog sure help but restrict manuvering in tight spaces. I was reading the KK implement brochure and noticed the payload differences. I could build a carry-all like KK but heavy like the pallet mover and make the rearward projection only 1/2 as much to keep the weight closer to the 3PH arms and preserve manuverability. I could use channel iron or angle as a bolt on extension to regain the "lost" platform size when using it for its regular purposes. If I catch a KK type carry-all for a "right" price I might get it and reinforce it by welding on more steel. Otherwise I guess scratch building is in order. The pins are only $5 each and if I use pipe instead of angle or channel that is essentially free as I have a "source" for that.

    "Source" comment: There are some "dead" pipelines across my property. Due to liability concerns the owning company can't tell me "officialy" to pull them up but encourage me to do so if I wish. Previously they got into a liability hassle when a landowner got burned when residual petroleum products caught fire. As the pipe is dead and open at one end for years I don't think there are many volatiles left. The first is 2 inch and is a few hundred yards of pipe in two pieces and is near the surface. The rural water installing contractor who is putting in a 6 inch water line on right of way I gave them "found" the pipe with a trencher and used a backhoe to bend the end to the surface so I could access it easily. the other end is exposed at a creek crossing. I'll report later on this operation.

    I concur that concrete is a good choice due to its strength, density, and cost. Cheap or free scrap metal, steel, iron, lead, whatever is about the only thing better except maybe for some schemes that use water.

    Note: I don't want liquid ballast in my tires, I could opt for foam fill. Wheel weights might be OK but for me some 3PH weight is a good solution for most forseeable issues.

    After further condsideration, including your comments, I guess rather than making a custom concrete 3PH weight, I'll go for a custom HD carry-all with custom cast weights that can be backed up to and loaded onto the carry-all without getting out of the seat. Shouldn't be too hard, just need a support(s) on which to store the weight(s) such that I can back up and lift them with the carry-all. I guess one way would be to cast some "C" channels into the weights to sit on the horizontal "rails" of the carry-all. MOre on this later... I'll be having some concrete deliveries soon in support of an above ground storm shelter/safe room construction project so if I make up some forms for weights and set them next to the safe room site I can pour them at the same time with little hassle. Still with something this heavy I better cast in some metal "handles: to allow picking them up with the pallet forks. I'll look into casting recesses in the bottom so they are stackable, even with handles on top.

    DDT: What tractor did you use the 1700 lb weight on? What was its max 3PH spec?
    DFB: Like the braces idea. Maybe I should consider removable braces on the sides for use when carrying something that isn't so very wide but is really heavy, like big chunks of concrete.


    Thanks again, everyone, for sharing ideas and observations,

    Patrick

    P.S. A cubic ft of concrete weighs approximately 150 lbs and a cubic yard about 4000 lbs.



  6. #6
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    963
    Location
    Tescott, Kansas
    Tractor
    Kubota M6040/cab

    Default Re: Ballast/Counterweight

    patrickg
    What tractor did you use the 1700 lb weight on?
    I use a JD 4300 with a lift cap of 2200 LBS 24" back.
    DDT


  7. #7
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    597
    Location
    Edgewood, New Mexico
    Tractor
    JD4100

    Default Re: Ballast/Counterweight

    Patrick, I welded up a carry-all, using 2" tubular steel (1/4" thick walls). I'm sure it would rate out at around 2000# capacity. It's not too hard to do. I cheated somewhat and used the pallet mover design from the King Kutter website as kind of a working plan. I'm now in the process of welding some bucket quick attach pins and brackets to this so that I can also use it on my loader like a light duty forklift. All in all these carryalls can be pretty vesatile implements.


  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    1,390
    Location
    South Central Oklahoma
    Tractor
    Kubota Grand L4610HSTC

    Default Re: Ballast/Counterweight

    Sorry for confusion. I didn't use the weight I was asking the question of the fella who did, I thought!

    Here is what I proposed to Mutt that I would do...

    My max rated pallet fork load is 1300 lbs. I guess I need to perform an experiment. Put 1900 lbs in the FEL bucket and see how much weight on the 3PH keeps the tractor up right when lifting on it. FEL max load is 1880 so if it lifts the load or goes to max effort and the rear tires stay on the ground, then there is enough ballast. When I establish what it takes to keep her rear paws on the ground I can cast a weight at least that heavy and probably more for the carry-all. This weight will then work for the FEL with bucket or pallet forks mounted.

    Well, there are my thoughts, for better or worse. Your mileage may vary and probably does.

    As long as the weight determined empirically (plus a safety factor) is well below the max 3PH carying capacity of 2870 lbs I don't see a problem.

    A ton of concrete is a bit over 13 cubic feet or something like 2'x2'x3' 3" or similar configuration which would tuck in behind my kubota L4610 and not interfere with manuverability.

    Anyone see a problem? Have a suggestion?, Done this? Comments?????

    Patrick (Hope everyone has a great Holiday Season! Except terrorists, domestic and foreign.)



  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    1,390
    Location
    South Central Oklahoma
    Tractor
    Kubota Grand L4610HSTC

    Default Re: Ballast/Counterweight

    Hey, jyoutz, sounds neat! I have pallet forks that interchange with bucket on FEL so that is covered but once again minds working alike. I'm usiing the KK brochure as a starting point for my recycled used pipe design. May fabricate a different hookup than the pins they use which are $5 each and no better than a "U" shaped weldment drilled to accept a sturdy pin (which can be used elsewhere and not dedicated to this attachment).

    Happy Holidays

    Patrick


  10. #10

    Default Re: Ballast/Counterweight

    <font color=blue>...Have a suggestion?...</font color=blue>

    Hi Patrick,

    Normally, in the loader manual is a chart giving different ballast requirements and options and a combination of rear filled tires with rear 3-pt. weights... what does your manual recommend?

    As a rule... to normally realize the full lift capacity of the loader bucket, you will have an equal amount of weight in the rear of the tractor... divided between filled rear tires, rear wheel weights, and a 3-pt. ballast weight/implement...




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