Another Guage wheel question

[Matthew_H]

I am trying to put together the parts I need to build guage wheels for my rear blade. I am going to use the blade to clear snow from my gravel driveway and I would like the gravel to remain on the driveway. I also want to use the blade for grading dirt.
My question is, What effect does the distance between the blade and the wheel have on overall performance? If the wheel is say, 3 feet behind the blade does it make a smoother grade or can the wheel, or perhaps skid shoes, be mounted directly off the back of the blade and still achieve a smooth grade?
I have a John Deere 3203 with a Frontier RB2072 blade. I do not have a welder but I can get some welding done offsite. I am starting to lean towards the skid shoes, because it is an existing solution and no welding, but I want the grade to be smooth more than anything, so if I have to have welding done I will. So back to the original question, if the guage wheel is further away does it do a better job?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[IslandTractor]

If you look at a dedicated grader they are long machines with the blade dead center. That puts about 6 to 8 feet at least between the wheels and the balde. I presume this is because the geometry will optomize getting a smooth grade and minimize the effect of bumping up and down. I'd guess therefore that you'd want at least a couple of feet between your rear blade and the gauge wheels. I'm not sure about the geometry but it might be optimal to duplicate the distance from the blade to the rear wheels. That's probably not practical as it would mean about 4 feet, so something close to that would be ideal.

 

[HomeBrew2]

I made my "stingers" (tube that has wheel on it that slips into receiver hitch) 3' long so I would have the ability to vary the length as needed.
As it turns out, I never use the length. I keep the wheels as close as possible to the implement ... which is probably 12" ... as close as possible but with an inch or two clearance when the wheel is spun around as it would be for going backwards. I'm using 10" pneumatic tires.
In pactice, this setting produces a very smooth surface but will allow small undulations to remain, ie, not dead flat but close.
A couple words from a lot of experience:
By design the scraper will shave hills and fill valleys ... pay attention when smoothing gravel on a surface that has desired hills as it will shave the gravel off. Obvious, yes, but I still wind up doing it inadvertantly.
The most consistant operations seem to happen when the blade is loaded, ie, pulling some dirt. This dampens bouncing/chattering and keeps a downward load on the blade. So adjusting height when empty will usually result in more of a cut when loaded.
Skid shoes will probably work ok on hard surfaces. I made a set of shoes, of sorts, out of my rippers to spread a certain thickness of gravel but it works best when the dirt is dry and hard. Honestly, for gravel and snow, I think having skid shoes/wheels as close to the blade as possible would be preferred ... as long as they don't tear material up.

 

[Matthew_H]

HomeBrew2, I am trying to make a wheel set up very similar to yours but I am having difficulty finding 2" square tube. I did find an 18" extender hitch receiver at Northern Tool and some 500# rated castor wheels with a yoke and spindle, but the spindle is just a bit too big to fit through the 1-1/4" hole in a ball hitch. The ball hitch would, of course, fit into the 18" receiver. If I could increase the hole size in the ball hitch then I would only have to get the receiver welded onto the blade.
I could get a 2" or 6" drop ball hitch and then use spacers/washers to adjust the height. I need a machine shop.

 

[Raddad]

Attached are two pictures of the Land Pride gauge wheels. You can see the spacers that allow you to adjust them up and down. They are not as slick as HOMEBREW2's in that they don't adjust fore and aft.

 

[Matthew_H]

You know, I looked more closely at the castors from Northern and the stem is only 4" long and the pin hole is will only allow 2" of adjustment so I'm thinking perhaps those may not work too well.
Another option I'm thinking about is to just weld on some pieces of tube steel and use bolt on trailer jacks. There are some pretty heavy duty looking jacks available with large wheels and they are height adjustable with a screw mechanism. Should work shouldn't it?
Or I could just buy the Landpride guage wheel set ups and adapt them to my blade, looks like I could drill some holes and bolt them right on. That may be the easiest solution.

 

[HomeBrew2]

Took me a while to remember the guy's name but here's exactly what you're talking about. Trailer jack gauge wheels

 

[MadReferee]

Here is a link to a post I made a few years ago on how I made my own landscape rake gauge wheels. The arms that the wheels are mounted on can be adjusted to any length you want from the rear of the tines. All you have to do is drill new holes. BTW, I made the rake too.

Landscape rake gauge wheel build thread

 

[djradz]

I'd keep the wheels as close as you can to the rake, but leave enough room so you can go backwards and the wheels will turn fully without running into the tines.

I would not think using regular casters, or trailer jacks with casters is a good long term solutions as the ball bearings on most of these setups are not sealed. They may work for a while, but over several times, I have to believe the bearings will fill with sand, dirt and small stones and become almost useless or wear/fail very prematurely. Most of the more rugged OEM and home-built designs use some type of sleeve for the caster and sealed bearings for the wheels. I do like the idea of the easy of making adjustments with the jack handling however, but I've found I rarely change the height anyway and often can accomplish such just by changing the 3-pt top-link length. (No offense intended to anyone who's gone this route however!)