Questions on buying Top and Tilt at auction

[Gary_in_Indiana]

I went to an auction location today to look around before the sale this weekend and found what looks like a Top and Tilt set up still uninstalled as near as I could tell. I'm guessing it's for a Deere 4300 thats going to be up for sale. The only other tractor there was an old Case that looked WAY too big for the size cylinders I saw.

I didn't want to linger over it too long so I didn't measure anything. It looks like they have the control lever and some hydraulic lines in one lot and the cylinders and another hose in another lot. The lots aren't even adjacent, so I'm guessing whoever staged the sale doesn't even know what it is.

I looked at the Deere tractor and it's set up with Power Beyond for a backhoe (which is there) but no third SCV that I could find so I have to assume that's what the Top and Tilt is set up for and that would work for me. I have a couple questions here. First, what might something like that be worth? The other is, if I am successful in buying it, does anyone have any directions on how to install something like this? Thanks!

 

[3RRL]

I am not familiar with the Deere pricing for that set up, but I can tell you I spent nearly a grand for my home made top and tilt system. That included hydraulic top link and hoses, 2 side link cylinders and hoses. Double pilot operated check valves for all cylinders and the valve itself. My guess the Deere system would be way more expensive than that. If you could get it for $200 or $300 bucks it would be a steal and if you give $500 or $600 it would still be less than ½ price ... my guess but the Deere guys would have to confirm that.

Installation would be fairly straight forward.
Replace your turnbuckle top link with the hydraulic one.
Replace your turnbuckle side link(s) with the hydraulic one(s).
Mount the valve on your tractor for easy access keeping in mind you will be using it while leaning over one shoulder looking backwards a lot.
Hook up all the cylinder hoses to the valve.
Hook up the valve to your tractor. Presumably your power beyond.

Not being familiar enough with your Deere, I may need some clarification from the Deere guys?
There are many threads on installation if you search, but here's mine http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/customization/86417-adding-hydraulic-side-links.html
It is way more complicated than your installation would be, I presume. But might give you enough information to consider what you want to do.

 

[radman1]

I have purchased 2 different sets of TNT's over the past few years. The first set was a new gannon with large, 3-3.5" diameter cylinders and no check valves. The cylinders were mixed in with a pallet of miscellaneous kubota parts from a dealer going out of business. Paid $300 bucks for everything. The TNT was buried under other parts, and most buyers probably didn't know it was there.
The 2nd set was at an auction this summer and were off a JD 4600. Very good condition with hoses and check valves but 2" diameter cylinders. Paid $330 for set.

 

[Dusty]

When you really want to win an auction, don't be the opening bidder, in fact, don't bid at all until the very end, just before the hammer falls. Usually at that point, the person that you just outbid will push it a few more dollars and then walk away. It is hard to keep your hand down, but it does work. If stuff comes up that you have no interest in and you know that it is going to go high, then bid early and often, but be careful not to get caught as the next owner. That way, the auctioneer will know who you are, and sometimes, they might even throw it your way. I have seen the auctioneer drop the hammer quickly when he wants a particular person to get the item. Dusty

 

[ovrszd]

When you really want to win an auction, don't be the opening bidder, in fact, don't bid at all until the very end, just before the hammer falls. Usually at that point, the person that you just outbid will push it a few more dollars and then walk away. It is hard to keep your hand down, but it does work. If stuff comes up that you have no interest in and you know that it is going to go high, then bid early and often, but be careful not to get caught as the next owner. That way, the auctioneer will know who you are, and sometimes, they might even throw it your way. I have seen the auctioneer drop the hammer quickly when he wants a particular person to get the item. Dusty

Way to go Dusty, now we are going to have to listen to "War Stories" from everybody about how to bid at auctions!!!!

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

Well, I now have an idea on prices and confidence that folks here can walk me through installation so I guess the only thing left is to see if I can get it bought at a decent price. Thanks, guys!

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

I got the boxes with the top & tilt parts bought along with a third box with miscellaneous hydraulic fittings and a much larger cylinder. The auctioneer put everything together so I ended up with all three as one lot. Fortunately, before I left someone who'd been at the other arena approached me about that huge cylinder. They'd wanted to bid on it and missed it and, since I really didn't need or want it, I sold it to him and ended up with my two cylinders, controller valve and hoses.

Now, does anyone have installation instructions for something like this that would work for me attaching it to my JD4200 with 'Power Beyond' for a backhoe? I'm not at all mechanically inclined so you can't "dumb it down" too far for me. Thanks!

 

[radman1]

Need to know what kind of control valve you have. Can it take 4 outlets (would have 2 levers on the valve) which would handle 2 sets of hydraulic hoses? 2 hoses for each cylinder would require 4 outlets on the control valve. 6 outlets would let you control another set of cylinders down the road if needed. Your JD tractor should use an open type hydraulic flow and the control valve would also able to have the capability of using an open system. (some valves are closed system only.) My understanding is the open system flows oil constantly. The power beyond hose would go into the control valve and back out the valve to the tractor. Moving the contol lever on the valve redirects the flow to the outlets/cylinders.
Need to find a good place to mount the control valve. Usually placed on the right hand side by fender and in easy reach. A simpler location is behind the seat on a bracket but this is more difficult to reach. You should be able to bolt or clamp a mounting bracket to the ROPS and mount the control valve on that.
If you don't have your own control valve strongly consider buying a JD valve setup with 2 or 3 sets of outlets. Will probably cost more but is factory designed for your tractor and usually not too difficult to mount and will look and perform great.

The hydraulic couplers would require 4 female couplers for a 2 lever valve. 4 male couplers on the hydraulic hoses. Most common couplers are now standardized ISO or formally called poineer couplers and widely available at farm stores. Don't buy older style JD or IH couplers. Hoses, couplers, and other fittings are easily found at farms stores like TSC, Orschlen's etc. Diameter of hoses can vary from 1/4", 3/8", or 1/2". Any will work but the 1/2 are stiffer and less flexible. 1/4" will work fine but 3/8" is nice compromise.
Mount control valve and hydraulic cylinders on tractor. Use piece of garden hose or flexible tubing to run the route of the hoses to help determine length. Check the hose length with lift arms lowered and raised to make sure the length will work and no kinks. This is especially true for the tilt cylinder which has more up and down movement.
The ports on the hydraulic cylinders are probably 3/8" but not always. You may need 90 degree fittings on the cylinders (especially for the tilt cylinder.)before attaching the hoses. Other adapters will probably be need between the hoses and couplers. If possible take the control valve and cylinders with you to wherever you buy the fittings and couplers to get the right fittings. Take your existing fittings and any hoses you have so you can use them also. Make a diagram of the position of the valve, length of hoses and location of cylinders. A knowledgable sales person can get you started on what fittings are needed. Plan to make a few more trips to get other fittings, return fittings, hoses etc. I can never get it right with one try.

 

[MadReferee]

Diameter of hoses can vary from 1/4", 3/8", or 1/2". Any will work but the 1/2 are stiffer and less flexible. 1/4" will work fine but 3/8" is nice compromise.

Hoses from the spool work ports to the cylinder should be 1/4" dia. This will give just enough restriction to allow fine feathering of the TNT cylinders. Size of the pressure and return hoses should match what the power beyond hoses are. They are usually 3/8" but could be 1/2". Always buy hoses that are at least 4000 psi and 2-wire.

 

[radman1]

Hoses from the spool work ports to the cylinder should be 1/4" dia. This will give just enough restriction to allow fine feathering of the TNT cylinders. Size of the pressure and return hoses should match what the power beyond hoses are. They are usually 3/8" but could be 1/2". Always buy hoses that are at least 4000 psi and 2-wire.

I have had 1/4 -1/2" hoses on various TNT's and have not really noticed a significant difference with hose diameter. My guess this may be related to lower flow rates of CUT's, relatively short hose length for TNT, most adjustments of the cylinders are not a pto engine speed and therefore slower hydraulic flow and my TNT cylinders are larger diameter than most and may not be as noticeable. I tend to feather the flow mostly with the control valve. A 1/4 hose will carry about 3.5 gal/min., 3/8" hose about 7 gal/min., and 1/2" hose about 12 gal/min. Your 4200 JD has a max flow of about 7 gal/min at PTO speed. 4000 psi hoses are a good choice.