Hello all. I posted yesterday but today its gone. Don't know why. We are a new manufacturing company located in New York. We manufacture backhoe's for tractors as well as skidsteers. We currently have a special for a backhoe with a 5' digging depth for only $2850.00 delivered. This backhoe comes with a limited warranty on the hydraulics (cylinders and control valve) for 3 years and 1 year on the frame. This unit has manual stabilizers or can be ordered with hyd stabilizers as an option. This unit can also be financed for 1 year no interest if you qualify. E-mail me for details. Like I said earlier we are a new company and any input would be welcomed. Steve
Backhoe NEW BACKHOE FOR 3 Pt Tractor 2850.00 Free Shipping
- Thread starter SteveP
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PaulT
Gold Member
Well,
I'm no expert, but I do have a hoe on my B2710. My initial thoughts are:
Not industrial enough for this crowd - perhaps for any crowd
At that price, I'd be looking for a used kelly or the like - probably pick one up for around $3000-$3500 with a 6 1/2 ft depth.
How can manual stabilizers effectively stablize, unless you can manually use them to unweight the tractor. If so, then the tractor is too light to dig anything other than sand. If they are manual jacks like bottle jacks, they would be far to slow to makde the hoe useful. Ditch the manual and only offer hydraulic.
My conclusion, you won't have a very big target market with that configuration and price. If you could build a bigger, stronger conventional 3-ph hoe with hydraulic stabilizers for that price, you might have something - low cost high value producer.
Suggestions:
1 - Don't underestimate the need/importance of a correct fit and bolstered mounting points. While this is probably not important with such a lightweight hoe, if you considered beefing it up, make sure you take into account the mounting reinforcements that must match each tractor make.
2 - If you want to keep the hoe design small, I would still add the hyd stabilizers and focus on the BX crowd. That might be the best match for the size/capacity of that little guy.
3 - I still suspect that the price is perhaps $800-$600 too high. Keep in mind that most people ask "how many times can I rent a hoe for the purchase price of one?" With a price of $3000, you could rent a full-blown CASE 580 TLB 10-15 times, and the amount of work you could accomplish is not even comparable to your hoe.
I am not trying to "shoot you down". I admire your initiative. I am just trying to give you honest criticism, having gone through the process of deciding on what to buy for my needs. Maybe I am an exception, but I have read enough here and spoken with enough people face to face to suspect that most potential hoe buyers think similarly, at least in the lightweight, homeowner category.
Good Luck!
I'm no expert, but I do have a hoe on my B2710. My initial thoughts are:
Not industrial enough for this crowd - perhaps for any crowd
At that price, I'd be looking for a used kelly or the like - probably pick one up for around $3000-$3500 with a 6 1/2 ft depth.
How can manual stabilizers effectively stablize, unless you can manually use them to unweight the tractor. If so, then the tractor is too light to dig anything other than sand. If they are manual jacks like bottle jacks, they would be far to slow to makde the hoe useful. Ditch the manual and only offer hydraulic.
My conclusion, you won't have a very big target market with that configuration and price. If you could build a bigger, stronger conventional 3-ph hoe with hydraulic stabilizers for that price, you might have something - low cost high value producer.
Suggestions:
1 - Don't underestimate the need/importance of a correct fit and bolstered mounting points. While this is probably not important with such a lightweight hoe, if you considered beefing it up, make sure you take into account the mounting reinforcements that must match each tractor make.
2 - If you want to keep the hoe design small, I would still add the hyd stabilizers and focus on the BX crowd. That might be the best match for the size/capacity of that little guy.
3 - I still suspect that the price is perhaps $800-$600 too high. Keep in mind that most people ask "how many times can I rent a hoe for the purchase price of one?" With a price of $3000, you could rent a full-blown CASE 580 TLB 10-15 times, and the amount of work you could accomplish is not even comparable to your hoe.
I am not trying to "shoot you down". I admire your initiative. I am just trying to give you honest criticism, having gone through the process of deciding on what to buy for my needs. Maybe I am an exception, but I have read enough here and spoken with enough people face to face to suspect that most potential hoe buyers think similarly, at least in the lightweight, homeowner category.
Good Luck!
gerard
Veteran Member
paul, where can you rent full size equipment w/o a million dollar insurance policy? I found it cheaper to get an excavator with the operator than it would have been to rent one and do it myself because of the insurance requirement. Isn''t that a requirement for all the bigger stuff?? (If not I think I'll be renting some stuff this spring!)
PaulT
Gold Member
Not for homeowner use - the big piece of insurance is liability - hurting someone else. If you are on your own property and are the only operator, you are the only one getting hurt (hopefully not). Even so, my insurance guy said my homeowners policy covers me for injury to others, as well as damage to others property, up to $300k. I live in NY, so we have lots of regs and rules, but we're covered. My local Kubota dealer will rent me a case 580 for $150 a day, or a komatsu mini-excavator for $125 a day, plus delivery. (I live close, so its about an extra $50). The local NH guy has 8 and 9 ft 6-way dozers for $350/400 per week - same story. In the end, I decided to buy a hoe, so I don't need to rent, but I did the comparison before I splurged. If I ever need to re-grade, I'll rent the dozer - always wanted to learn that skill /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif. Now, if you are doing contract work, thats entirely a different story.
SHIFTY
Gold Member
PaulT
I know that everyone has an opinion but wernt you a little hard on Steve?For a homeowner to buy a new hoe for that price include delivery,delivery got to cost $200-400.Thier are many out their who cant spend 5-6k on a shovel.Up here in CT a Full size backhoes rent for 375 per 8 hour day+mini excavators 325 per 8 hour day .I know his unit is not a woods or bradco But...It would proubally be fine for light trenching,planting ect.I have sold used hoes 10 years old for more $$ than that with no warranty,I will agree that the hydralic stablizers are a big plus and I think its great that you mentioned the BX Series since the woods 650 or kelly600b units are just to heavy,I did hear that Kubota's coming out with a BX 2200 with a Kubota hoe,best of luck to Steve STEVE Are you going to have a larger unit for the 25-35 horsepower tractors??
I know that everyone has an opinion but wernt you a little hard on Steve?For a homeowner to buy a new hoe for that price include delivery,delivery got to cost $200-400.Thier are many out their who cant spend 5-6k on a shovel.Up here in CT a Full size backhoes rent for 375 per 8 hour day+mini excavators 325 per 8 hour day .I know his unit is not a woods or bradco But...It would proubally be fine for light trenching,planting ect.I have sold used hoes 10 years old for more $$ than that with no warranty,I will agree that the hydralic stablizers are a big plus and I think its great that you mentioned the BX Series since the woods 650 or kelly600b units are just to heavy,I did hear that Kubota's coming out with a BX 2200 with a Kubota hoe,best of luck to Steve STEVE Are you going to have a larger unit for the 25-35 horsepower tractors??
cowboydoc
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I for one completely agree with you Paul. I don't see how that thing could stand up to much. With only a 5' digging depth around here you couldn't even put in a water hydrant. I completely admire the build job and such but I don't see how it would stand up or do much of a job either. You are going to have to be in some soft ground to do much with it.
MarkV
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Steve,
Welcome to the forum and best of luck with the new manufacturing venture. Hope you will stick around and share your experiences.
In my opinion there are diverse needs that compact tractors are used for and most all those needs are represented here on the forum. I heard a comment that Kubota’s L48 was not big enough for serious TLB work. Guess that makes my B21 TLB (Kubota’s smallest) completely useless. Different needs demand different pieces of equipment. As I look at what my TLB has done, I know that a full size TLB could have done the work in 1/10 of the time. When I look at how many times I would have had to find, schedule, pay transport charges, equipment and operator hours or rental and delivery charges I know my backhoe has paid for itself. Even if it is useless./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
As with any piece of equipment understanding your demands and what the limitations of the equipment are, is the trick to being satisfied with a purchase. That is where the experience and opinions shared on the forum are so valuable.
MarkV
Welcome to the forum and best of luck with the new manufacturing venture. Hope you will stick around and share your experiences.
In my opinion there are diverse needs that compact tractors are used for and most all those needs are represented here on the forum. I heard a comment that Kubota’s L48 was not big enough for serious TLB work. Guess that makes my B21 TLB (Kubota’s smallest) completely useless. Different needs demand different pieces of equipment. As I look at what my TLB has done, I know that a full size TLB could have done the work in 1/10 of the time. When I look at how many times I would have had to find, schedule, pay transport charges, equipment and operator hours or rental and delivery charges I know my backhoe has paid for itself. Even if it is useless./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
As with any piece of equipment understanding your demands and what the limitations of the equipment are, is the trick to being satisfied with a purchase. That is where the experience and opinions shared on the forum are so valuable.
MarkV
PaulT
Gold Member
Having been a small business owner, I know how hard it is to take criticism, especially malicious criticism. I hope that is not how I came across. I also know that I valued every single bit of criticism as valid input, if it was meant to be helpful, and not personal. I would think Steve would like to hear directly from a person who, at one point, would have considered buying his product. While our market in central/upstate NY may not be as high priced as CT, we are still not an especially inexpensive place to do business. Nevertheless, I think that some patience and some visits to local auctions/dealers would get you a good brand used hoe that was far more capable (in terms of digging depth and breakout forces) than the one Steve is advertrising, for about the same (or maybe just a little more) money. In my opinion, anyone with a B-series or bigger tractor (or the blue/green/red equivalent) would probably not be making the best decision to get anything smaller than a 6 foot hoe. I think most people with relevant experience would agree. If I am correct, that leaves Steve with 2 options:
1 - target a market that the hoe IS appropriate for (the BX crowd, prehaps)
2 - Try and sell a product to a market that has no need for it
I would appreciate hearing from my intended market BEFORE I lost my shirt trying to build/sell it in volume. In the world of big business they get market info from consumer focus groups - something I'm betting Steve can't afford. Hopefully I can provide Steve not only with one more marketing data point, but with several data points as we get others involved in this discussion thread.
So lets give Steve some free market study feedback. Vote your opinion from the following choices:
1 PaulT's just being too harsh, I would buy it (not someone else might buy it - that's no help for Steve)
2 Steve should develop the 5 footer for the BX and Deere Garden series
3 Steve should only build bigger hoes and compete with the "big guys" for less money
4 I have another opinion and it is__________.
1 - target a market that the hoe IS appropriate for (the BX crowd, prehaps)
2 - Try and sell a product to a market that has no need for it
I would appreciate hearing from my intended market BEFORE I lost my shirt trying to build/sell it in volume. In the world of big business they get market info from consumer focus groups - something I'm betting Steve can't afford. Hopefully I can provide Steve not only with one more marketing data point, but with several data points as we get others involved in this discussion thread.
So lets give Steve some free market study feedback. Vote your opinion from the following choices:
1 PaulT's just being too harsh, I would buy it (not someone else might buy it - that's no help for Steve)
2 Steve should develop the 5 footer for the BX and Deere Garden series
3 Steve should only build bigger hoes and compete with the "big guys" for less money
4 I have another opinion and it is__________.
cowboydoc
Super Member
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Mark,
I've seen the BX hoe and I wouldn't say the same thing about it. Kinda bothers me that we can't give honest opinions about what we think of something either. Paul gave a very accurate account of the backhoe. I haven't heard alot of people say that that looked like one that would hold up yet. They even have a hoe you can put on a four wheeler that is about as useful as a man on a shovel. Sure someone may buy it but that doesn't mean that it was worth it. I think it's ok to have constructive criticism about a piece of machinery. It's no different than praising a piece of machinery, it's your opinion. It would be pretty bad if everything that came out we didn't effectively evaluate it and said nothing if it wasn't up to par.
Paul my vote would be #2.
I've seen the BX hoe and I wouldn't say the same thing about it. Kinda bothers me that we can't give honest opinions about what we think of something either. Paul gave a very accurate account of the backhoe. I haven't heard alot of people say that that looked like one that would hold up yet. They even have a hoe you can put on a four wheeler that is about as useful as a man on a shovel. Sure someone may buy it but that doesn't mean that it was worth it. I think it's ok to have constructive criticism about a piece of machinery. It's no different than praising a piece of machinery, it's your opinion. It would be pretty bad if everything that came out we didn't effectively evaluate it and said nothing if it wasn't up to par.
Paul my vote would be #2.
MarkV
Super Member
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Richard,
I sure was not trying to criticize anyone for stating there opinion and I apologize if it sounded that way. Steve was asking for input and that is what everyone is offering. Shoot, that is why I participate in the forum. I do think there are those who want a backhoe and plan on doing no more than plant shrubs or dig shallow drainage ditches. For the price, Steve’s backhoe may fit their needs. I know the backhoe would not fit your needs or mine for that matter. No offense intended./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif
MarkV
I sure was not trying to criticize anyone for stating there opinion and I apologize if it sounded that way. Steve was asking for input and that is what everyone is offering. Shoot, that is why I participate in the forum. I do think there are those who want a backhoe and plan on doing no more than plant shrubs or dig shallow drainage ditches. For the price, Steve’s backhoe may fit their needs. I know the backhoe would not fit your needs or mine for that matter. No offense intended./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif
MarkV