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  1. #1
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    NH TC40DA 2002

    Default FEL capacity

    I one were to choose tractor color primarily on the FEL capacity for units in the 40-50 hp range, what color comes out on top??

  2. #2
    Super Member Bob_Skurka's Avatar
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    Default Re: FEL capacity

    Some of these are estimates based on partial published data and then calculated to determine the rough capacities. Realize that the farther forward the capacity is measured the lower the rating will be. So many manufacturers had changed from bucket center measurements to pivot point measurements because pivot point capacities appear to be higher, but when the numbers are adjusted to factor out the differential for distance then the numbers are easier to compare. The number in italics is the manufacturers published number. All other numbers are calculated/estimated. Sorry, but I don't have JD literature for that class of tractor.

    Case Farmall DX48 and New Holland TC48 (48hp)
    3500# at pivot pins at 59" high = 2650# at bucket center at 59", estimate deducting another 250+# at full height for a rough estimate of 2200# to 2400#

    kubota M5040 (50hp)
    2326# at bucket center at full height

    Kubota MX5000 (50hp)
    2290# at bucket center at full height

    Massey Ferguson 543 (52hp)/1040
    1974# at bucket Center at full height

    Montana 4940 (49hp)
    2465# (presumed to be at pivot points) at full height = roughly 1850# at bucket center at full height

    Mahindra 5500 (54hp)
    2400# at pivot points at full height = roughly 1800# at bucket center at full height

    Kioti DK45S (45hp)/KL1470
    2100# at pivot points at full height = roughly 1600# at bucket center at full height


    *** It should be pointed out that bucket center and a measurement point of about 19" forward of the pivot points are often interchanged as the same thing, they are not in fact the same. Bucket center is typically a bit farther out than the 19.7" measurement point. However for the sake of this rough comparision, I choose to call Massey Ferguson's measurement point "bucket center" because it is fairly close to the same thing.
    Last edited by Bob_Skurka; 03-06-2007 at 03:01 PM.




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  3. #3
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    John Deere 5400, Farmall H, Farmall Cub, Allis Chalmers CA

    Default Re: FEL capacity

    Very interesting and thanks for the info. I wondered how a 50 something HP tractor could have such a huge loader capacity. This is somewhat like the HP claims I was talking about. Slightly miss leading at times but still telling the truth. Almost like politics

  4. #4
    Super Member Bob_Skurka's Avatar
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    Default Re: FEL capacity

    Quote Originally Posted by wkpoor
    I wondered how a 50 something HP tractor could have such a huge loader capacity. This is somewhat like the HP claims I was talking about.
    Well some loaders clearly have more capacity than other loaders.

    But, in addition to that, different measurement points on the same loader yield different results, so when comparing different brands it is best to centralize on one measurement point. I prefer the bucket center measurement simply because it is a realistic point; afterall you carry the load inside the bucket not at the pivot points.

    CORRECTED: New Holland TC48 + Farmall DX48
    1830# at bucket center at full height.
    Earlier today I took the 3500# capacity from the Case data that I have, however that is the capacity at 39" not at 59" so it would have made all the other numbers inflated when I ran the standard calculations. When I checked the New Holland specs, they list all the measurement points very clearly and the correct number, for both brands is 1830#.


    As for horsepower, that is a whole different animal. You can't use model numbers to determine horsepower. And different type of tractors use different types or ratings. Generally when comparing compact utility tractors the horsepower given is the engine horsepower. However, when comparing larger and agricultural tractors the PTO horsepower is often given as the horsepower rating (but not always). And then again, these are generalities, they are not hard and fast rules.




    Snow Trac, the Swedish Snow Tractor, at Wikipedia
    Never insult a man with a bag of dog poop in one hand and a tennis racket in the other hand!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: FEL capacity

    Interesting information Bob.

    Too bad the MFG's don't publish the time to completely cycle with a FULL bucket. That's an interesting aspect that gets covered over....

    jb

  6. #6
    Super Member Bob_Skurka's Avatar
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    Default Re: FEL capacity

    John, some give cycle times, but I am not aware of any that give cycle times under load.

    Loader and 3pt capacities are some of the most misleading numbers given by manufacturers. They are often used ot show their tractor has greater capacity than a competitor but they use non-matching numbers.

    For the record, and this has been posted before, the most "honest" of the manufacturers give all the spec numbers in places that are easy for people to access. kubota and Case/New Holland typically provide 3pt capacity at both the pivot point + 24" behind the pivot points. They give loader capacity as several lift heights, and at pivot points and at points forward of the pivot points. Both brands typically do this on the internet and in their brochures.

    John Deere provides all the numbers, but makes it pretty darn difficult to find the numbers, and lately has been featuring pivot point numbers, which many feel are inaccurate numbers.

    Most of the minor brands provide very misleading numbers, which is a shame, because they occasionally have superior numbers for some of their machines and don't need to hide the capacity.
    In the case of the Case/New Holland capacity number that I posted early today, it should be pointed out that I made the mistake of using the Case marketing data and simply reading the description, but not the spec sheet. When I later checked the actual spec sheet I saw my mistake. I simply don't want someone to think that they provided a misleading number, it was clearly my error.

    Also, when I do the calculations I generally "round up and add a few" (so that I give the benifit of the doubt). However if I were to measure the Case/New Holland in exactly the way I calculated the Montana specs, then the Case/New Holland would out lift the the Montana by a few pounds. And the spec sheets for the Montanas and the New Hollands do confirm that the Case/New Holland is the stronger loader, which confirm my math technique.




    Snow Trac, the Swedish Snow Tractor, at Wikipedia
    Never insult a man with a bag of dog poop in one hand and a tennis racket in the other hand!

  7. #7
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default Re: FEL capacity

    The listing for the Kioti 45S loader is outdated. The 1470 is an old style loader that may or may not be available but most 45S tractors are now equipped with the new 451 loader. The lift capacity at PP to full height for the 451 is 2800lbs or about 25% more than the 1470. The 451 is the loader that should be in the comparison list. Using your usual 30% discount figure to go from PP to mid bucket, that means the 451 would have a capacity of around 2000lbs which puts it in the middle of the pack.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member IH3444's Avatar
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    Default Re: FEL capacity

    You need to also take a look at the buckets, and their sizes. The loader and dealer support is what made my decision to choose the NH TC48. You also may want to sit in the seat and look over the hood while operating the loader. See the differences between the mfgers designs, and your view going into material. Once again for me the NH TC48 was my choice. Dealer pricing and incentives may sway your decision also.

  9. #9
    Super Member Bob_Skurka's Avatar
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    Default Re: FEL capacity

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandTractor
    The listing for the Kioti 45S loader is outdated. . .most 45S tractors are now equipped with the new 451 loader.
    According to the Kioti website, which confirmed my brochure, the loader I used is appropriate, but I'll take your word that it is outdated. There are actually 3 different loaders available for the DK45S, not sure which is the most often sold, but all 3 have different capacities.
    Quote Originally Posted by IH3444
    You need to also take a look at the buckets, and their sizes. The loader and dealer support is what made my decision to choose the NH TC48. You also may want to sit in the seat and look over the hood while operating the loader. See the differences between the mfgers designs, and your view going into material. Once again for me the NH TC48 was my choice. Dealer pricing and incentives may sway your decision also.
    Yup you just got to the meat of the whole tractor buying concept. It is more than just the capacity of the loader that matters. There is no arguement from me that there are many factors to consider with tractor capacity and tractor design. I personally think the newest John Deeres and New Holland tractors are the best designed units on the market in terms of ergonomics that make it easier to use a tractor for long periods of time safely, easily and efficiently. kubota is also very good in design but not up to the newest Deere or NH models. Still Kubota has a near 60% marketshare and outsells Deere, NH, Case, Massey-Ferguson, Montana, Mahnidra, Jinma, Kioti and Long combined! The Kubotas are all around excellent machines with dozens of models to fit every market niche that consumers can think of, they have light machines, heavy machines, budget machines, and loaded machines and the one thing they all have in common is they are statistically RELIABLE and that is a component that is hard to beat.

    You also brought up the dealerships. And bucket design. And seat of the pants. All excellent topics to consider.




    Snow Trac, the Swedish Snow Tractor, at Wikipedia
    Never insult a man with a bag of dog poop in one hand and a tennis racket in the other hand!

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