Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    28
    Location
    Finger Lakes in NY
    Tractor
    MF 135 diesel, Deutz-Allis 6250V w/ cab & 4wd, David Brown 780D, Kubota L4200 4wd w/FEL, Kubota BX2200, MF 533D, 2 JD Gators,Kioti 5510C

    Default JD Gator-Gas in oil

    Hi, first post altho I have been watching and learning for a while. Not very good with computer so please bear with me.
    Bought a new 6x4 Gator in Nov. 2006. Air cooled 20HP Kawasaki 2 cyl. After about 20 hrs. use engine began to break up. Sent it back to dealer who informed me there was gas in oil. Diagnosed as a crankcase ventilation problem. Supposedly fixed and returned in June 07. We use the Gators, (we have two, other is older liquid cooled), a lot on the farm and by Nov. I gave it a full service. Oil was above the full mark again. I was careful to use the correct JD oil and fill exactly to the mid point between the marks on the dipstick. This was at 120 hrs. on meter. We use the Gators a limited amount in the winter. Engine started to break up after about 20 hrs use again. Changed plugs and checked oil. Found crankcase was full to about 1/2 inch above full mark. Smelled of gas and looked thin.Went to different dealer who did considerable research and came up with an answer from John Deere tech site.
    According to JD and Kawasaki, " oil dilution from gas in an internal combustion engine is NORMAL." I've had many tractors and other equipment as well as running JD AMT's and gators for almost 20 years and never experienced this problem. JD blames it on operating conditions, poor fuel quality, short/ light operating cycles.cold temps, and ect.
    John Deere tech site lists as "Solution Number: 75853". I'm not skilled enough to scan in and attach but maybe someone else is able to locate this and post it
    Afraid that I am just too skeptical to believe that engines are so poorly built that this problem is acceptable and that an expensive piece of equipment should have this type of problem.
    I'd be interested in the opinions or comments from some of the other TBN'ers.

  2. #2
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    94

    Default Re: JD Gator-Gas in oil

    Gas enters the crankcase on all engines, as the rings don't provide a 100% seal. But, that fuel normally evaporates during operation and is burned via the breather system. If the engine doesn't reach and sustain a decent temperature, that fuel will not evaporate like it should. If the Gator is constantly stopped and started, or -forgive me- "putted around" on, the crankcase never stays warm enough for that evaporation to occur.

    That is normal for the Kaw engine if run under those conditions, and I've never heard of a Gator engine being damaged due to it. You'll probably need to change more often in the Winter.

    The "solution" noted is dealer-only information from JD tech support. It sounds like the dealer has researched the problem properly.

  3. #3
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    599

    Default Re: JD Gator-Gas in oil

    Your not alone with this problem. Local Deere dealer doesn't have a fix. Just buy the plugs by the case and hope it is run hot before shutting it down. Kawasaki should step up to the plate and fix this issue. The FI fuel pressure must have something to do with the extra fuel in the cylinders. It has to come from somewhere. Good luck and glad I didn't buy one.

  4. #4
    Platinum Member joecdeere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    952
    Location
    Cumming,Georgia
    Tractor
    1948 Allis UC Hi-Crop Cane 1941 Allis WC 1948 Allis G 1948 Allis G 1949 Allis G 1954 Allis G 1959 Ferguson TO-35 1972 MF 135 1979 Power King 2418 1989 Ford 345C TLB

    Default Re: JD Gator-Gas in oil

    the solution listed is for the new "TH" series 6x4, is that what you have or a older 6x4?

    your solution from above -

    Solution Number: 75853

    Solution Summary: Gator Has Fuel In Engine Oil. TH6X4 Gator.

    Publication Date: Mar 21 2007


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    **Paper copies of solutions may not be the most current solutions**

    Complaint or Symptom :
    Engine oil smells like gasoline, engine oil is diluted with gas. Oil level climbs on dipstick.

    Problem or Situation :
    Oil dilution from gas in an internal combustion engine is NORMAL. The amount of dilution is dependant on operating conditions, fuel quality and time between engine oil changes.

    Short/light duty cycles, or short operating periods with light engine loads, can make oil dilution occur at a faster rate. As ambient temperature decreases, oil dilution can occur at a faster rate. The reason for this is that in colder ambient temperatures and/or short/light duty cycles the engine oil temperature does not get hot enough to boil-off fuel and moisture in the crankcase. Conversely, as the weather improves ambient temperatures increase or as longer/heavier duty cycles increase, oil dilution decreases. Oil dilution can occur at a faster rate on larger displacement engines due to larger engine surface area for unburned fuel and moisture to condense on, and because relative duty cycle decreases as the engine size and power increases. A larger engine does not work as hard as a smaller engine to accomplish a given job.

    Oil dilution increases as fuel quality decreases. After hundreds of hours of lab tests, the only common denominator for oil dilution throughout the ambient temperature range is poor fuel quality. Gasoline contaminated with as little as 1.5% diesel can result in poor atomized fuel, resulting in oil dilution. Stale gasoline, where light ends of the fuel have evaporated, cannot burn fully and ends up in the crankcase diluting the oil.

    Solution :
    Inform customer, oil dilution in an internal combustion engine is normal. Larger displacement engines such as on the TH6X4 are more prone to oil dilution. When machine is operated for short periods and light engine loads, more frequent engine oil change is required to keep oil dilution below 10%. The Operator痴 Manual is in the process of being revised to make this more understandable/clear. Kawasaki has stated that oil diluted with fuel up to 10% is acceptable and no engine damage will occur. A good general rule is to keep oil level from going 7mm (9/32 in) over the full mark on dipstick.

    Inform customer, as ambient temperatures decrease the potential for oil dilution increases and more frequent engine oil change may be required to keep oil dilution below 10%. The Operator痴 Manual is in the process of being revised to make this more understandable/clear.

    Inform customer, to use fresh 87 octane fuel and consume all fuel within a 30 days period. Use of fuel or oil additives such as fuel system cleaners, conditioners, drygas or octane boosters should not be used. Use of fuel stabilizers such as TY15977 Gasoline Conditioner and Stabilizer or PM1108B Sta-bilョ Gas Stabilizer, are recommended and will extend the useful life of fuel.

    Perform normal maintenance.

    Additional Information :
    Piston rings that are not yet seated to cylinder walls may contribute to oil dilution. Some dealers have reported success using TY22041 Break-in oil to help seat the rings. Refer to DTAC solution 46833 for more information about proper engine break-in procedures, symptoms that can occur as a result of non-seated rings and steps that can be taken on engines with problems related to improper or incomplete break-in.

    DTAC Specialist internal information


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TH6X4

  5. #5
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    173
    Location
    McKean county, Pa.
    Tractor
    John Deere 4110-HST

    Default Re: JD Gator-Gas in oil

    Don't know if your Gator has a carbruator or is fuel injected. But I do
    know that the needle valves in some carbruators would leak gasoline
    into the crank case of 4 cycle motors. New needle valves usually
    solved the problems. elad

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    28
    Location
    Finger Lakes in NY
    Tractor
    MF 135 diesel, Deutz-Allis 6250V w/ cab & 4wd, David Brown 780D, Kubota L4200 4wd w/FEL, Kubota BX2200, MF 533D, 2 JD Gators,Kioti 5510C

    Default Re: JD Gator-Gas in oil

    Thanks for the replies and thanks for posting the actual JD solution info. I currently have a 2000 JD 6x4 gas gator with the liquid cooled Kaw and the 2006 gator with an air cooled Kaw. They both get 125 to 150 Hrs use per year and we would be lost with out them. I did have a 2001 6x4 as well. The 2000 uses 2 or 3 plugs per year. The 2001 would use 10 or 12 per year, sometimes going 2 months without fouling and then twice in one week. It was always the rear cylinder that fouled. JD's advice was to run them at high speed and never let them idle more than 60 seconds. Pretty tough to take something with no rear suspension across a field at full tilt. Gators are sold to farmers and others as a tool, not primarily for joy riding. Farm work means fairly short hauls, stopping and starting, running tools and supplies. moving things, fixing fence or trellis, and ect. They are not good in snow and in winter their use is fairly limited. It's tough to warm an engine up in the winter when you're not supposed to let it idle. Now we factor in the above JD solution for new Gators. My gator didn't just gain a little in the crankcase, there was a considerable amount of gas in there. Do I drain and replace oil every 10 hrs of use? Should they be parked until warm weather? If you think I am little unhappy a tool that is inadequate for the job, you would be right. I think these are design flaws in the engines and claiming that the operators should compensate for the engines shortcomings is unreasonable. Yes, I will continue to own these units and compensate for them as nothing else fits our needs as well. That doesn't mean that I accept the poor engine performance. Let's hope that JD and kawasaki can come up with an all purpose engine that fits the task. And thanks for letting me vent.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member TOMMYHPX4X4's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,956
    Location
    schriever, louisiana terrebonne parrish
    Tractor
    gator hpx 4x4

    Default Re: JD Gator-Gas in oil

    i did notice that there are two screws on the top of the carb on my hpx after i turned on of them a little bit i stopped getting the bad black cargon buildup on the back cylinder that i was getting.the screws i am talking about are the little black ones thet look like they are made out of plastic there is one for each cylinder. mark down the original settings and then try messing around with them to see if you get better results with your plugs i know i did.
    This ignore feature is great it's like raid is on pest one click and the pest is gone

  8. #8
    Gold Member shot_gun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    386
    Location
    NJ

    Default Re: JD Gator-Gas in oil

    Grapeman The new 6x4's (TH) have an air cooled engine that retains more heat in the cylinders for more complete combustion at an idle so the spark plugs don't foul. Your engine beings that is water cooled cannot keep enough heat in the cylinder at an idle. This is manified when it is cold out. You might want to change the thermostat if it has never been changed. You will get some gas in the oil if it idles enough and usually moisture from condensation as well. If it excessive then I would look at the carb. check the needle valve ect. Tommy's HPX has a 2 barrel carburator which is slightly adjustable and can compensate for A/F ratio for front and rear cylinders. If all else fails a stick cut to lenght between the driver seat and the gas pedal is cheap and easy way to idle it up when it's sitting. Not ideal but it's something.

    Take it easy,
    S_G

    Remember nobody ever complained about having too much horsepower!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
© 2016 TractorByNet.com. TractorByNet is a registered trademark of IMC Digital Universe, Inc. Other trademarks on this page are the property of their respective owners.