Buying Advice Bobcat Track loader No MSRP/negotiation ?

[brain55]

I didn't mention any of that since those details are of no importance ;-)

Silly me, and I didn't even mention the national ad campaigns that are charged back to the dealers whether they impact local sales or not.

Brian

 

[Digdeep]

Silly me, and I didn't even mention the national ad campaigns that are charged back to the dealers whether they impact local sales or not.

Brian

Once again....those silly details.

 

[tony Cecil]

Well Brian I address this to you...You sound like a stand up fellow, and one I would like to know here in S C, as I would do business with you, and would turn into a good customer..

A fair charge, and trust is all it takes, and in this day and time, hard to find----but more than possible......as you demonstrate..

I don`t know about your or Mr. digdeep past selling experiences, but you both know that it takes a` big `person NOT to take advantage of a customer who does not know a lot about what they are trying to buy....I ask both of you, how would a person even begin to know where to start if the manufactured doesn`t even post a MSRP ??

I hate to say it but the lady and I are of the opinion that it is up to us to try and get a fair and reasonable price ...No one is giving that to us to start with....

I do agree with you both that a profit has to be made by the dealership, not only to pay the sales commission, but to enable a dealer to survive and prosper...

I further do not expect any un paid for support from whomever I deal with, unless it is part of a written agreement....and frankly I bet it would be my fault whatever happened...and Brian --if you were `my` man, I would feel a lot better having my equipment under your component care...I don`t know you but I sense you to be a good person Tony

 

[brain55]

Well Brian I address this to you...You sound like a stand up fellow, and one I would like to know here in S C, as I would do business with you, and would turn into a good customer..

A fair charge, and trust is all it takes, and in this day and time, hard to find----but more than possible......as you demonstrate..

I don`t know about your or Mr. digdeep past selling experiences, but you both know that it takes a` big `person NOT to take advantage of a customer who does not know a lot about what they are trying to buy....I ask both of you, how would a person even begin to know where to start if the manufactured doesn`t even post a MSRP ??

I hate to say it but the lady and I are of the opinion that it is up to us to try and get a fair and reasonable price ...No one is giving that to us to start with....

I do agree with you both that a profit has to be made by the dealership, not only to pay the sales commission, but to enable a dealer to survive and prosper...

I further do not expect any un paid for support from whomever I deal with, unless it is part of a written agreement....and frankly I bet it would be my fault whatever happened...and Brian --if you were `my` man, I would feel a lot better having my equipment under your component care...I don`t know you but I sense you to be a good person Tony

I guess in this case you almost have to play them against each other. I would go to your local Kubota dealer first, if he is a construction dealer, and get some prices. Let him know what you are doing, get some prices for the size range you are looking at. Do some research on Kubota's and Bobcat's websites, have an idea of the features you would like, how heavy, and how deep you need to dig. Keep in mind that if you want to transport it yourself you will be limited to about 7000 lbs depending on what your local trailering laws are. This will probably put you in the Bobcat 331,334 or Kubota KX91 size range. If you aren't concerned about moving it, the Bobcat 337 or Kubota KX121 or bigger could be a better choice. Do your homework and be knowledgeable about the features you like and need, this should help you get to the best price quicker. After you get some numbers from your Kubota dealer go to the Bobcat dealer and see what he offers in comparison, let him know what you are doing too. Either of these machines will work well, both have Kubota engines, and the similar sizes will likely have the same engines. Get on them and operate them, see which ones you like the feel of. Go ahead and type "new excavator pricing" into your search engine, see if they list anything in the size range you are looking for. I found a new Kubota KX121 with 3 buckets for $50K, this seems cheap to me, but I'm in high rent California. I would expect to pay over $60K for that machine here, unless the market has depressed so much that this is a reasonable price now.

Brian

 

[tony Cecil]

I appreciate your `concise` advice and am doing just that.....but not quite as suggested..The reason I am not pricing the Bobcat is that they don`t give a MSRP price..at all.. and what I plan on doing is narrow the manufacturer down to two comparable machines...then I am not going to play one off the other , but negotiate fairly--with no promises from me---and then test the machine....The reason I am approaching it in this manner is I don`t want to test one, love it, and then be `reeled` in......Whomever gets the business will be happy as they will give the price they are willing to do business at..

I must admit I sure don`t want to be greeted with a smile---but behind that smile is an angry (inside) person...Rather just do without.. Tony

 

[Scooby074]

I dont understand the problem here.

MSRP means essentially nothing.

You want to get a feel for the price of various machines, have a look on equipment Trader, iron search, ebay, machenery trader and others.

That will give you a better idea of actual selling prices then MSRP.

 

[seymour]

Hey guys. New member...great site and good topic.

I have bought 4 machines and a dumping trailer from our local bobcat dealer. I understand that 4 or 5 machines does not get me a back massage when I walk on the lot but I do expect to be treated as a serious client.

I don't buy the line that I should be willing to fork over a few thousand extra just for the opportunity to keep my dealer happy and build the relationship. When we bid jobs we loose them if we over bid and that's what keeps us competitive (or eating Kraft dinner if we're too high). I'm currently considering selling our 2008 T190 and maybe upgrading to a new T750 and I am sure going to save a few thousand if I can by buying elsewhere if my guys not competitive. Our machine has about 1400 hrs and tracks/undercarriage about 60% if anybody is interested.

Also anybody try the new m-class machines (especially t750)? What do you think all hype or God's gift? What's a reasonable price point?

Our t190 is paid off and my accountant told me it would be wise to look at turning it over for some tax reasons...I'm also considering the supposedly newly designed t190s. Anybody try one? Is there much difference? Are they really newly designed or just a few different labels on them?

Thanks for your input!

 

[SSdoxie]

I don't won or operate these on daily basis for a living, but to get to operate them from the service side making sure they are ready to go to customer. Moving from the T190 up to the T750 is quite a step up. The T750 replaced the T300. It has the same engine and driveline, but some hydraulic rerouting has reduced back pressure giving it some more net hydraulic power at lift, tilt, & auxiliary. The M-series cab has more room in it and what I notice most is the visibilty to the bucket/Bobtach. When hooing up/changing attachments you can always see the top lip of the Bobtach, don't have that blind spot any more. Customers that have gone from the T300 to the T750 have commented on how impressed they are with it. Those with enclosed cabs agree it is much quiter inside.
The new T190 replacement is the T590. This machine has gone through the same design changes. Same engine & driveline as T190 but with changes to hydraulic flow and new cab. Not knowing what you job requirements include but you might want to look at the T650 as well, this is sized between the 590 & 750. Remember the old T200? The T650 fits in around that size class machine.
The T750 had to get changed over to ITier-4 engine emissions this year, so depending on whether dealer still has a Tier 3 T750 in stock will affect the price. The ITier-4 in the 700 models uses the same engine as the Tier-3 but with Electronic fuel injection and exhaust after treament so price has increased.

 

[seymour]

I don't won or operate these on daily basis for a living, but to get to operate them from the service side making sure they are ready to go to customer. Moving from the T190 up to the T750 is quite a step up. The T750 replaced the T300. It has the same engine and driveline, but some hydraulic rerouting has reduced back pressure giving it some more net hydraulic power at lift, tilt, & auxiliary. The M-series cab has more room in it and what I notice most is the visibilty to the bucket/Bobtach. When hooing up/changing attachments you can always see the top lip of the Bobtach, don't have that blind spot any more. Customers that have gone from the T300 to the T750 have commented on how impressed they are with it. Those with enclosed cabs agree it is much quiter inside.
The new T190 replacement is the T590. This machine has gone through the same design changes. Same engine & driveline as T190 but with changes to hydraulic flow and new cab. Not knowing what you job requirements include but you might want to look at the T650 as well, this is sized between the 590 & 750. Remember the old T200? The T650 fits in around that size class machine.
The T750 had to get changed over to ITier-4 engine emissions this year, so depending on whether dealer still has a Tier 3 T750 in stock will affect the price. The ITier-4 in the 700 models uses the same engine as the Tier-3 but with Electronic fuel injection and exhaust after treament so price has increased.

Great info thanks. Didn't know the 750 was that much of a leap. The t190 has been good but I want a bit more power and comfort. And I'll sure appreciate that extra visibility. The t190 has been a good size for limited access residential properties but it feels a little underpowered. We are currently moving truckloads (20-30) of free fill from the front to the rear of a new home build with a bit of a slope and tons of mud. This machine bogs down a bit in the mud...won't stall or get stuck but it's fully working so when u go to dump it overloads things and its slow. Doesn't help the material is saturated so each bucket is like pudding and twice it's normal weight.

Do you guys have the tier 4 engines come in a lot for servicing? Any difference between the 590 650 and 750 in reliability. Anybody compare them to eachother (or Deere equivalents). Reasonable pricing for each model?

On another note what's your guys take on the controls. I'm a little old school so I've always had the standard setup...anybody move to joysticks and share your thoughts?

Cheers

 

[SSdoxie]

The new elcentronic injection Interim Tier-4 engines in the 7xx & 8xx models just came out in last half of this year, so not a lot of run time on them yet. Good feed back from the guys that do have them so far. If any design problems develop in that engine Bobcat, Kubota, & Cat are all going to see the same thing. All 3 brands run the same engine & desing in that HP range.
The Interim Tier-4 in the 5xx & 6xx do not have the electronic injection or exhaust after treamtment. The emission requirement stages are a little less stringent in the under 75 HP range so are still running mechanical injection. Nest year these machines will have to move to final Tier 4 and will have electronic injection on them, but the Bobcats will not have a DPF or DEF exhaust after treatment. These models will be getting an engine designed from block up to bea ble to meet Tier 4 emissions without haveing to add the exhaust after treament systems.
I will let someone who has made the switch from manual to Joystick controls comment them. I like the Joystick but don't get enough seat time to really give an opinion.
You might want to ask the dealer about trying out a T650 to see if it will meet you power needs before jumping up to a T750.