need help - Bobcat 553 intermittent electrical problem

   / need help - Bobcat 553 intermittent electrical problem #1  

shakey jake

New member
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
9
Location
Fort Calhoun, NE
Tractor
John Deere 750, Bobcat 553
I have a "new to me" bobcat 553 that is giving me fits. It has never died on me once its running, but sometimes when I turn the key on there is no power. By no power I mean that none of the lights on the panel come on, the volt gauge stays on the low peg, no lights are illuminated on the BICS, and the engine won't crank from turning the key. The battery is charged and I can crank the engine by shorting the terminals on the starter motor. All of the fuses are good. Even when I'm having the problem, there is power to the back of the key switch from the red/white wire (19S/19G if you have the diagram). When I turn the key on I get power to the light blue/green wire 26A on the back of the key switch, which is normal. When I turn the key to the start position I get power to the red/white wires (21S/21R/21RM) on the back of the key switch, which is normal, and I can hear the little Bosch starter relay click (item 22 on the engine wiring diagram), but sometimes the big starter relay on the starter doesn't engage and the starter doesn't crank. I'm thinking I'll try replacing the little Bosch starter relay next, but I can't see how that would cause me to not have lights on the panel or voltage on the volt meter. Not sure what else to do. Any advice would be hugely appreciated, this is the first time I've worked on one of these things. Thanks....
 
   / need help - Bobcat 553 intermittent electrical problem #2  
Check fuse in the instrument panel, might be loose. It is a small black knob you turn and pull out, spring in back of the glass fuse may be compressed letting fuse loose contact.
 
   / need help - Bobcat 553 intermittent electrical problem
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Thanks for the reply Dennis. Mine doesn't have a fuse on the instrument panel, any other thoughts?

Kevin
 
   / need help - Bobcat 553 intermittent electrical problem #4  
OK no problem you have a little newer 553 than I was thinking of.
When switch is ON power from "IGN" post sends power back through the cab harness to engine harness and to the Switched Power Relay that powers up the BICS and runs power back up through the cab harness to instruments, and also through different harness connection to BICS. Switch ON will also power up the Fuel Solenoid Relay/Timer - Didn't mention if this is working, but may not make any difference locating problem.
The Start circuit comes of the "ST" terminal of the switch, sending power back to the Starter Relay which the powers the Starter Solenoid.

Multiple circuits involved, look for common connections:
Both Starter Relay & Switched Power Relay have the constant high amp power coming from the battery cable connection at starter. Check for loose, corroded connection or partially broken wires. - Test the #30 terminal of the relays to make sure there is battery voltage there all the time.
The other "common" connection is the engine harness to cab harness connection. - Check for loose connection(s) or corrosion.
 
   / need help - Bobcat 553 intermittent electrical problem
  • Thread Starter
#5  
A little more progress today but still not solved. I tested the switched power relay and it tests out good. I swapped relays and it made no difference. I raised the cab and disconnected the big round cab to engine wiring harness connector. I checked continuity from pin 'L' of the engine side of the big round connector to the 85 pin of the switched power relay socket and it was good. I checked continuity from the IGN terminal of the key switch to the 'L' pin on the cab side of the big round connector and it was good. I checked continuity from the 86 pin of the switch power relay socket to the negative battery terminal and it was good. I checked voltage at the 30 pin of the switched power relay and it was good. I put the big round connector back together, lowered the cab, turned the key on, and checked voltage between the 85 and 86 pins of the switched power relay socket and it was good. I turned the key off and re-installed the switched power relay.


The wiring diagram says that the switched power relay supplies power to three fuses when it closes; a 25 amp accessory fuse (item 29), the 10 amp BICS fuse (item 25), and the 10 amp BOSS fuse (item 32). I turned the key on and checked voltage at those three fuse sockets, with the fuses removed. The BOSS fuse socket had full battery voltage, about 13 volts. The accessory fuse socket and the BICS fuse socket both only had about 1 volt. Now I'm getting somewhere.

Anybody seen this before?
 
   / need help - Bobcat 553 intermittent electrical problem #6  
Time to look in back side of the fuse block. Inspect connection where power going into the 25 amp fuse splices off to the other fuses. Possible water entered in around the fuse block caps and arc/corroded the wires.
Keep posting, if you need more in depth assistance list the serial number. There were 5 production versions of the 553, most of electrical was similar but do have some variations with different schematics for each version.
 
   / need help - Bobcat 553 intermittent electrical problem
  • Thread Starter
#7  
I had little time to work on this some more today. I removed the air cleaner housing and the plate that it and the fuel filter mounts to so I could gain access to the fuse block assembly. Boy, when they put these things together they sure didn't think about what you were going to have to do to work on them. Every where it was possible they hid the bolt heads or nuts behind something to make it nearly impossible to get a wrench on them. Anyway, once the I got all of that stuff out of the way, I could see that there was about a half inch of gunk on everything. You couldn't tell what color the wires were, where they went, or what was connected to what, so I spent a chunk of the afternoon de-gunking the left side of the engine compartment. I was literally taking gobs of goo out by the handful. Then I sprayed it all down with some of that spray cleaner and wiped it out with paper towels. At least now I can see what is going on, and if there's a leak I'll be able to see where it's coming from.

Next I removed the relays and the fuse blocks from their bracket, and took the bracket out of the way so I could flip them over and look at the back side where the wires are. There are fourteen wires from the fuse blocks and they are all either red, red with a white stripe, or orange, and they all go into the wiring harness, no jumpers straight from one fuse to another. All the wires seemed tight and there was no visible corrosion. I took the clips off of the back of the fuse blocks and tugged on all of the wires to make sure they were connected, and they were. Still, I cleaned all of the connections as best I could, and I fiddled with the connector on the switched power relay some more, since it was more accessible now, to make sure it was clean and tight. During this whole process I occasionally turned the key on to check, and the circuit would sometimes work, sometimes not. The more I did the more it seemed to work, but who knows.

Since it was a little warmer today and my hands weren't numb this time, I went back and cleaned the ground and power connections that I had fiddled with or looked at before. That seemed to make a difference as well, and at the end of the day the circuit seemed to be working consistently and the BICS panel was lighting up brighter than it had before. If it's still working tomorrow, I'm going to put it all back together and try it. There wasn't really any smoking gun, I think it was just a case of several marginally dirty connections adding up to enough resistance to cause a voltage drop in the power to the relay coils, so that they would sometimes close in and sometimes not.

While I had it apart I also took the opportunity to take the relay/fuse block bracket into the garage and weld the heads of the relay mounting bolts to the back of the bracket. Now, if I ever need to replace another relay I won't have to take half the Bobcat apart to get a wrench on the bolt head.

Anyway, thanks for your help, and have a merry Christmas.
 
   / need help - Bobcat 553 intermittent electrical problem #8  
Sounds like you made some progress. A little dialectic grease on the spades of all relays and fuses wouldn't hurt.
FYI on wire colors - Red is supposed to be battery voltage before a fuse, red/white is fused power, and orange is relay activation/signal wire.
 
 
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