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  1. #1
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    309
    Location
    Colorado
    Tractor
    CT 235

    Exclamation Fuel - no start problems

    Filled up tractor today - ran fine for 10 minutes, then died. I may have bad fuel (water). Had to tow it with my truck back to the barn. I learned that clutch does not disengage drive train. Trans must be in neutral too. Rear tires would not turn until I did

    Checked and drained fuel filter - still no start. Also did air purge procedure too, I thought fuel may have jelled, but was good. Added 911 anyway to filter and tank and tried again - no go. Fuel came from a full Jerry can that is about 6 month old and had standard died fuel #2. Is there an easy way to drain the tank and start fresh?

    It will try and start but acts flooded with lots of smoke. I managed to kill the battery, so charging now

    Will get new filter in the morning and try again. Any thoughts?

    If there is not a way to drain the tank (other than a siphon), is there a simple way to check fuel flow to the filter with the filter bow off and a bucket underneath? Do I just turn the ignition on or is it gravity to the bowl. That may also purge any water from tank too before I put the new filter in.

    Thanks - Keith

  2. #2
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    6
    Location
    SW Michigan
    Tractor
    Ford 2000, Kubota B7300, Bobcat CT450

    Default Re: Fuel - no start problems

    I've had a similar problem once on a diesel tractor. Turned out to be a clogged air filter. It's easy enough to check.

    Good luck.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member SSdoxie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    2,202
    Location
    Cumberland Plateau, TN
    Tractor
    Bobcat CT225

    Default Re: Fuel - no start problems

    Didn't mention tractor model if other than a 120 or 122, the fuel filter has 3 position handle (off, on, & air/vent). With handle in Air position fuel will run to filter from normal suction line and a line going back to tank. There is also a excess fuel line from injection pump back to bottom fo the tank that can be removed to drain fuel.

    Did the engine die suddenly as if shut off, did it sputter like running out of fuel, or did it rev up suddenly then die?
    Dennis

    CT225 w/7TL QA FEL, 60"tooth dirt bucket, 68" smooth bucket, Pallet Forks, Bale Spear. Hydrualic top llin, QH, 48 RC, 60" tiller, Angle blade, Landscape rake, Carry-all, Post hole auger.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    46
    Location
    Southeast
    Tractor
    All types

    Default Re: Fuel - no start problems

    i suspect either a faulty engine stop solenoid or possible stuck rack in the injection pump. Are you getting fuel out of the injection pump? Is the engine stop solenoid energizing and holding?

  5. #5
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    309
    Location
    Colorado
    Tractor
    CT 235

    Default Re: Fuel - no start problems

    It is a CT 235 (need to figure out how to make a signature line work)

    It died while in idle mode. I was chaining up a load of logs. Died sputtering like happens when you choke a normal gas engine to stop.

    Thanks for the help

  6. #6
    Veteran Member SSdoxie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    2,202
    Location
    Cumberland Plateau, TN
    Tractor
    Bobcat CT225

    Default Re: Fuel - no start problems

    Quote Originally Posted by powerscol View Post
    It is a CT 235 (need to figure out how to make a signature line work)

    It died while in idle mode. I was chaining up a load of logs. Died sputtering like happens when you choke a normal gas engine to stop.

    Thanks for the help
    Sputtering, in this case, could be a good thing. The failed/stuck rack Someguyss mentioned & I was suspecting usually came on with sudden surge in RPM or immediate shut off then failing to restart. You said there is lots of smoke, if it is blackish in color means you are getting fuel (good or bad) to at least 1 injector so if black would rule out the stop solenoid, especially if you hear the solenoid click when you turn the key on.
    I went down to shed a looked at my tractor, there are 2 fuel lines to the fuel supply pump just below the filter, both have steel coil around the line. Take the line off of the pump that does not go to the filter, this will gravity drain the tank then reconnect it, and remove the other to drain that line to filter.
    When purging the fuel filter with new fuel, loosen all 3 injector lines at the injectors and crank engine for a few seconds to push as much suspect fuel out as possible. Then retighten the lines and finish fuel bleed process.
    Dennis

    CT225 w/7TL QA FEL, 60"tooth dirt bucket, 68" smooth bucket, Pallet Forks, Bale Spear. Hydrualic top llin, QH, 48 RC, 60" tiller, Angle blade, Landscape rake, Carry-all, Post hole auger.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,292
    Location
    Barrington, NH
    Tractor
    Bobcat CT230

    Default Re: Fuel - no start problems

    Don't forget to check the wires and connections to the seat safety switch. If it comes loose or breaks, it will shut down the engine just like you'd hopped off the seat with the brake off.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member SSdoxie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    2,202
    Location
    Cumberland Plateau, TN
    Tractor
    Bobcat CT225

    Default Re: Fuel - no start problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Zinj View Post
    Don't forget to check the wires and connections to the seat safety switch. If it comes loose or breaks, it will shut down the engine just like you'd hopped off the seat with the brake off.
    Saftey switches open will not let crank, engine cranks and smokes just won't fire.
    Dennis

    CT225 w/7TL QA FEL, 60"tooth dirt bucket, 68" smooth bucket, Pallet Forks, Bale Spear. Hydrualic top llin, QH, 48 RC, 60" tiller, Angle blade, Landscape rake, Carry-all, Post hole auger.

  9. #9
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    309
    Location
    Colorado
    Tractor
    CT 235

    Smile Re: Fuel - no start problems

    Were back in business. I got lucky. Instead of undoing the hoses I ran a large siphon hose in and drained the full tank. I moved the suction hose around to get into the drop section. I tried getting fuel out of the filter hose by just turning the valve to on or air, but got nothing out. I suspected ICE at bottom of tank or in line, so on to step two. I should note I have been around a few jelled up diesels in my time watching others fix the issue using various methods such as mentioned above. Thanks for the good advice

    Once drained, I added Power Service 911 to the tank with a gallon of fuel then went to get a new filter and give it time to work. Discovered the original filter is not changed at 50 hour service. So folks know 911 will absorb water and remove any Ice.

    I plugged the block heater in the before I left too. Dealer walked me through the hoses and valves and also noticed part of the original filter was probably still in the housing as the old filter I brought to them was missing the metal top cap. The metal cap had separated from the plastic body. Good thing he noticed. In showing me the valves and upon returning home I noticed that figures PM 38 and PM 40 show turning the filter valve the wrong way - having the lever end point towards the off or air position rather than the pointer at the end. You can see this as PM 39 shows the correct position to on.

    Got back with new filter (temps were now above freezing) along with 10 gallons of fresh winter fuel from a good source I use for my truck. I changed the filter and filled the bowl 1/2 full with 911 (per bottle directions) and re installed (after removing the top of the old filter that had separated). I then again turned the valve to air - nothing came out. So I then filed the tank full with the new fuel watching the fuel bowl. At first nothing, then slowly the bowl filled starting with the old red died fuel that was left in the line, I waited about 15 minutes for the bowl to fill completely (red fuel quickly cleared to the new fresh fuel). I

    then tried to start (lever still pointed to air per manual). It was very rough over the first three try's with lots of blue-white smoke - the kind you get with a cold diesel (sputter and die - each time a bit longer running though). On try 4 after cycling the glow plugs manually it finally fully caught and came sputtering to life. Still lots of blue white smoke, I ran it for 1 minute with the fuel lever on air, (smoking cleared up) I then shut down, turned it to on and fired her up again, Ran her for about 20 minutes doing odd chores. Running like a top now.

    Lessons learned - do not fill up with old fuel without checking for water first - especially if temps are below freezing. Fill with winter fuel or treat summer fuel before temps go below freezing. Have fresh fuel on hand. Keep extra fuel filter on hand as well as Power Service 911 and their standard fuel conditioner in the white jug. I use that all the time in my diesel truck. Why I did not treat the tractor I will never know

    Lastly come here and ask for help

    Hope others can learn from my mistakes
    Thanks - Keith

  10. #10
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    3,472
    Location
    USA
    Tractor
    Bobcat

    Default Re: Fuel - no start problems

    Quote Originally Posted by powerscol View Post
    Were back in business. I got lucky. Instead of undoing the hoses I ran a large siphon hose in and drained the full tank. I moved the suction hose around to get into the drop section. I tried getting fuel out of the filter hose by just turning the valve to on or air, but got nothing out. I suspected ICE at bottom of tank or in line, so on to step two. I should note I have been around a few jelled up diesels in my time watching others fix the issue using various methods such as mentioned above. Thanks for the good advice

    Once drained, I added Power Service 911 to the tank with a gallon of fuel then went to get a new filter and give it time to work. Discovered the original filter is not changed at 50 hour service. So folks know 911 will absorb water and remove any Ice.

    I plugged the block heater in the before I left too. Dealer walked me through the hoses and valves and also noticed part of the original filter was probably still in the housing as the old filter I brought to them was missing the metal top cap. The metal cap had separated from the plastic body. Good thing he noticed. In showing me the valves and upon returning home I noticed that figures PM 38 and PM 40 show turning the filter valve the wrong way - having the lever end point towards the off or air position rather than the pointer at the end. You can see this as PM 39 shows the correct position to on.

    Got back with new filter (temps were now above freezing) along with 10 gallons of fresh winter fuel from a good source I use for my truck. I changed the filter and filled the bowl 1/2 full with 911 (per bottle directions) and re installed (after removing the top of the old filter that had separated). I then again turned the valve to air - nothing came out. So I then filed the tank full with the new fuel watching the fuel bowl. At first nothing, then slowly the bowl filled starting with the old red died fuel that was left in the line, I waited about 15 minutes for the bowl to fill completely (red fuel quickly cleared to the new fresh fuel). I

    then tried to start (lever still pointed to air per manual). It was very rough over the first three try's with lots of blue-white smoke - the kind you get with a cold diesel (sputter and die - each time a bit longer running though). On try 4 after cycling the glow plugs manually it finally fully caught and came sputtering to life. Still lots of blue white smoke, I ran it for 1 minute with the fuel lever on air, (smoking cleared up) I then shut down, turned it to on and fired her up again, Ran her for about 20 minutes doing odd chores. Running like a top now.

    Lessons learned - do not fill up with old fuel without checking for water first - especially if temps are below freezing. Fill with winter fuel or treat summer fuel before temps go below freezing. Have fresh fuel on hand. Keep extra fuel filter on hand as well as Power Service 911 and their standard fuel conditioner in the white jug. I use that all the time in my diesel truck. Why I did not treat the tractor I will never know

    Lastly come here and ask for help

    Hope others can learn from my mistakes
    Thanks - Keith
    Glad to hear she is back a rockin!

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