Diesel fueling made easy (easier, anyway)

[dfkrug]

Originally Posted by schmism

im fairly shure your heater hose isnt going to stand up to the desiel fuel for long..... But nice idea!

Steve, you are right that heater hose is not oil-resistant. It has not been a
problem as fuel does not sit in the hose. Ideally, I would want a large
ID fuel hose, which I did not have in stock at the time. I was wondering
if anyone would notice.....

As for air pressure, I use air all the time in my workshop where I park
the tractor, so it is readily available when time to add Diesel. One of the
reasons there is no core in my schrader valve stem is that I want to add
only enough pressure to push the fuel up the hose and not over-pressurize
the Jerry can. I would like to move to a cylindrical tank with wheels when
I do an update.

As for filtering the fuel before putting it in the tank... I don't do that for
any of my vehicles and I never pour the last dregs from any can. What
little particulate contamination I get will be caught by the fuel filter, I
figure.

[laurencen]

pumping windshield fluid, the drum is about 24 inches across with a area of 452 sq inches, at 10psi it has 4,520 pounds of pressure holding the cap on, I personelly would not stand near it any time it was under pressure, we use to have air bags placed under heavy machines and pump them up to lift off the ground, bags were 3x2 foot and could lift a machine 20,000 pounds off the ground for putting rollers under, I saw a add years ago where in a emergency a bladder could be put under a car or truck and connected to the exhause pipe to change a wheel on a car 1960s vintage. Safest way to pump is a mechanical rather than air pressure,

Laurence

[2310 guy]

What pressure is the shop air set at when you fill?

[SimS]

I'm not trying to start anything here but the calculation of 4520 lbs holding the cap on doesn't seem right to me. Isn't the 10 psi applied to each square inch of the vessel? Therefore it would seem to me that the area of the cap multiplied by 10 psi would be something like 125 lbs for a 2" plug. The whole 4520 lbs sounded scary, but it is distributed across vessel's surface area. I'm betting that it doesn't take that much pressure to shoot out the diesel. Although I've never tried it, I think I would rather have the control of some sort of pump arraingement.

My .02

SimS

[HomeBrew2]

I max my beer kegs at 3psi (6' x 5/16" tubing) ... and you better be fast on the trigger to shut it off.

[dfkrug]

Originally Posted by HomeBrew2

I max my beer kegs at 3psi (6' x 5/16" tubing) ... and you better be fast on the trigger to shut it off.

That's a good comparison, HOMEBREW. A beer keg makes a great
fuel tank, too.

In my case, I can barely deflect my guage, and I can control air
volume easily with my tire filler wand w/ trigger. It is really about
pressure AND volume. I am probably at 1-3 psi max. I do not use
static pressurization and I do not ATTACH the tire filler to the stem.
Only about 2 psi is required to lift a liquid the amount of head I
am going for.

Pressurized air is like a lot of things....a great help for some things, and
dangerous in some circumstances. What I am doing is controlled and
safe. Each person has to make his/her own risk assessments with
whatever they do.

[sandman2234]

Not wanting to be a party pooper, I was hoping somebody would bring up the non pressurized can problem. Continous flexing of the cans seams will cause a leak sooner or later. Hopefully not at the exact moment you decide to air it up. I would seriously consider a good pressure regulator.

David from jax

[RonMar]

That 4520 PSI is the pressure on the entire top of a drum, or that force applied to the top crimp/weld that attaches the lid to the sidewalls. A 24" hydraulic cylinder would deliver the same 4520 pounds of force with 10 PSI applied behind the piston. That same 10 PSI is also being applied to every square inch of the drum surface making for a very large ammount of stored energy(airspring). That is why pressure vessels(boilers and such) are not tested with any air/gas in the system, only liquid(hydrauically). The liquid stores no energy when compressed and is fed with a low volume pump so if something fails, it only sprays a bit of water. Anyone ever see video of a 55 gallon drum of gasoline or diesel cook off in a fire? Pressure builds till the top or bottom lid seal fails and it either makes a big mushroom fireball(lid pops) or it launches like a rocket(bottom pops) Again, if you don't completely understand what you are doing, pressurizing a non pressure rated vessel is a good way to get someone dead.

[Farwell]

Am I missing something? The Jerry can is not pressurized, the air is pumped into the can with only enough pressure to force the fuel out and the walls of the can do not have any pressure on them to speak of in my interpretation. It works like a womans perfume spray bottle with very little pressure.

[RonMar]

Originally Posted by Farwell

Am I missing something? The Jerry can is not pressurized, the air is pumped into the can with only enough pressure to force the fuel out and the walls of the can do not have any pressure on them to speak of in my interpretation. It works like a womans perfume spray bottle with very little pressure.

In a perfect world, yes, only enough pressure to force the fuel out. But if the outlet hose becomes kinked or otherwise restricts the outflow of fuel, or the air is applied faster than the fuel can exit, the air pressure will build. This can happen very quickly before the problem is noticed and next thing you are wondering what that noise was and why you are setting on the floor covered in diesel fuel with pieces of metal jerrycan sticking out of your shins... A womans perfume sprayer typically uses a venturi and vacume from airflow thru it to lift the perfume out of the bottle, much like a carb uses it to lift the fuel out of the float bowl. The fuel or perfume is at atmospheric pressure at most.

To do it this way I think there should be a safety relief right beside the pressure inlet. It should be able to flow at least twice the maximum possible available air supply. It should also be set to a pressure just barely above that required to lift the fuel up to the required height and well below the pressure that the container would start to deform. That way if you connect the air and the safety opens and squirts air back at you, you know there is a problem with the delivery system and you can fix it before damage is done. Or use a vessel rated at the possible pressures that can be applied.