Building a waste oil burning stove for my shop

   / Building a waste oil burning stove for my shop
  • Thread Starter
#101  
Donman said:
Nice job! It appears to me that the only reason you need a conical is for the initial start up - something to hold the kerosene while it heats up.
The conical is needed for heat, not for holding the starter fuel. Be it kerosene, diesel, gas or even carburator cleaner, maybe even ether. When you use a fuel that is explosive like gas, use very little. Like a tea spoon full. Tea spoon full should be enough to get the fire going. Put in a little oil, like a tea spoon full. Take your finger and spread the oil out over your burn area. Pour the tea spoon full of gas over your burner and spread it out as well. Then light the oil and gas and close the door (have all vents closed) and turn the oil on and start the air induction. Once the inside pressure equals out (air pressure exits the flue pipe), open the vents and adjust oil and air pressure to desired amount of heat. Which should be the hot burn. Haveing all of the vents closed is because the air pressure will exit the stove through the air vents, not the flue pipe. And first starting the stove is when its hard to get the fuel and air ratio right. If its not right, it will smoke real bad and the air will push the smoke out the air vents (been there and done it). This is why the vents have to be closed. When there closed, the air will push the smoke out the flue pipe. The conical is needed cause as it turns red (hot), the oil that is not burnt by the flame, the conical will get it. When I was testing my hot burn, I had the oil flow rolling. Some of the oil mist was not getting burnt before it hit the conical. Once it hit the conical, the oil blew up and was burnt. That sounds kind of funny, but it was happening. What that told me was, I didn't have enough air pressure being inducted into the path of the dripping oil. The air stream was not turning the oil into a mist. Once I turned up the pressure, all of the oil was being burnt before it hit the conical. And the flame was really clear. This was how I was able to see the conical. Which is terms is a clean burn. I was able to do this during low burn, medium burn and a hot burn.

Donman said:
If the conical gets fire red hot there is most likely no liquid in it at all during most of the burn. The main reason Roger Sanders used the conical was for liquid vaporization which kept the hard deposits out with his drip feed method. It looks like you are getting a nice clean burn and variable heat with your design.
To be truthful with you, I dont see how his setup (liquid vaporization method) is working like the article is claiming. I tried his method and I could not get the conical hot enough to vaporize the oil and have a clean burn. I tried several test. I was able to get a good flame rolling, but not hot enough to completely burn all of the oil. I had soot rolling out of the exhaust pipe like a tractor trailor taking off from a stop. One thing that is different, that I know of is, his stove diameter is smaller than my stove diameter. My inside stove area is awhole lot larger than his is. I do know that, the more you compress the flame, the hotter it will be. Another thing is, his steel is awhole lot thinner than mine. Water heater skin is probably 1/16 inch thick. My stove skin is 3/8 inch thick. It takes a lot of heat to heat 3/8 inch thick steel up. Heating 1/16 inch steel probably aided in heating his stove better than mine. But I still can't see how he's getting a clean burn like the article is claiming.

Just thinking out load here, since a hot water heater is tall and he has a 4 inch round tube ran down through it to the conical and a round 2 inch inside diameter washer on top of the round tube acting as a restrictor. And the oil line runs down the round tube. As the flame is burning and sucking in air, maybe its makeing a air induction affect on the flame. Maybe this is how he's getting a clean burn. The round tube is acting like a air induction as the flame is sucking in air. Turn the oil up, more oil is being burnt, the flame is bigger, the flame is sucking harder. Hmmm....I just wonder if this is what is actually whats happening. If so, I went the wrong way. Ok, this is going to eat me up until I find out. I just might try it. I have an old water heater setting in my shop. I just might give it a try when I finish mine. :confused:
 
   / Building a waste oil burning stove for my shop
  • Thread Starter
#102  
atgreene said:
Wow, great thread. I've been looking at doing something like this for a while, thanks for taking the time to share your info.
Your welcome.:D
 
   / Building a waste oil burning stove for my shop #103  
Here are a couple of test burners.
The first one is about 4 inch diameter fed with the air compressor turned down really low
The second one is 6 inch diameter but I cannot find the pictures of the test burn that I did with it but it worked about the same as the first one and I was able to vary the air fuel mixture to get a clean hot burn with no visible smoke.

The "conical" is 2 thick 2 inch washer with some rod welded between them to make sort of a barbell I figured when one got dirty I could flip it over and have a clean burner surface.
The largest problem was regulating the oil delivery. Just using a gas valve is extreemly hit or miss.
This thread has helped a bunch for ideas to regulate my oil flow.


firstburner.jpg


11-26-07-013.jpg
 
   / Building a waste oil burning stove for my shop #104  
LetsRoll said:
Just thinking out loud here, since a hot water heater is tall and he has a 4 inch round tube ran down through it to the conical and a round 2 inch inside diameter washer on top of the round tube acting as a restrictor. And the oil line runs down the round tube. As the flame is burning and sucking in air, maybe its makeing a air induction affect on the flame. Maybe this is how he's getting a clean burn. The round tube is acting like a air induction as the flame is sucking in air. Turn the oil up, more oil is being burnt, the flame is bigger, the flame is sucking harder. Hmmm....I just wonder if this is what is actually whats happening. If so, I went the wrong way. Ok, this is going to eat me up until I find out. I just might try it. I have an old water heater setting in my shop. I just might give it a try when I finish mine. :confused:

Be careful here! You are starting to think more like me than I am!
I am still playing with the bottom feed idea too. My water heater is 18" diameter and 48" tall (not 52" like Roger's) and the chimney (now air intake) is 3 " in diameter. It produced so much draft when I shut the door that it wanted to blow the flame out so I cut a baffle out of a Tecumseh lawnmower engine shroud and that stands on the conical to help protect the flame. The flames move sideways under the baffle with the flame tips 12 to 14 inches in diameter. A triangle piece of sheet metal is used as a variable air throttle also at the top air inlet. While the conical is heating up for the first few minutes, the air needs to be throttled down. Once the conical is very hot, let her rip. At the top of the heater is a 3/4" pipe plug that can be taken out to watch the flames without affecting the draft. The white hot "flower of flames" that Roger refers to is amazing to watch. I think that aluminum is the key here for the conical as it heats up very fast. My initial tests were done one conical full of fuel at a time using a pump can oiler to fill it with. Now I have a 3/8" threaded hole in the conical center and am getting ready to try the bottom feed method I have been talking about. I'm still not sure if that will work or not, but if it does, that will be really sweet and simple.
 

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   / Building a waste oil burning stove for my shop #105  
Bernie, sweet looking burn you got going there. How are you getting oil to your conical.
Donman, keep up the good work, I am very interested in your bottom feed results.
Thanks for bring us along on you builds.
DRL
 
   / Building a waste oil burning stove for my shop #106  
DRL said:
Bernie, sweet looking burn you got going there. How are you getting oil to your conical.

DRL

Thanks. It's just a fire extinguisher with the bottom cut off. (the bottom is the bottom of the burner can) A gas valve and some 1/4 inch copper line.
The gas valve is awful. I think I will either rig a pump or use the air pressure method when I get back going on it.
 
   / Building a waste oil burning stove for my shop #107  
I'm not sure if this item here will help this problem or not, it is a constant level valve which is set up to let WATER flow into a trough/bucket or what ever by vacuum break method, that means that when the tube end is open to air it lets water/oil flow until the tube end is covered again... Auto Level Control Valves - ON SALE!

using oil drum and compressed air will provide pressurized fluid to the valve and a regulator on top of the oil means constant pressure to the valve this is what the valve needs to work right, BUT i don't know if it would work for oil, but it would maintain the level in the conical then... just trying to help
so far it is great read.

mark M
 
   / Building a waste oil burning stove for my shop #108  
Bernie, is that what I am seeing (gray colored) above the fire. If so how are you going to keep the oil line from getting to hot and coking the oil. Since the oil is vaporized with that much heat does it even need to go into the conical. Could you "T" into one of the air injector lines and let the air carry it into the combustion chamber.

DRL
 
   / Building a waste oil burning stove for my shop #109  
DRL said:
Bernie, is that what I am seeing (gray colored) above the fire. If so how are you going to keep the oil line from getting to hot and coking the oil. Since the oil is vaporized with that much heat does it even need to go into the conical. Could you "T" into one of the air injector lines and let the air carry it into the combustion chamber.

DRL
Yes that is the oil line.
The plan is to put the line inside a larger pipe and end it some inches above the end of the pipe. If thats not enough then i will run a little cooling air through it.
As far as injecting it in with the air, there is really not enough air flow to carry the oil. You would be surprised at how little air flow is needed to make it burn like that.
 
   / Building a waste oil burning stove for my shop #110  
Donman said:
Been there, done that with more than one build. What I'm trying to do is make a reliable burner that is simpler,- not more complex. If we could take a poll of all continuously used waste oil heaters I think we would be hard pressed to find one that takes less tinkering to keep it burning than Roger Sanders design. From what I hear, a few of the forced induction burners are so finicky to keep burning cleanly that many are abandoning their use. Roger did a lot of trial and error tinkering before settling on the design in his article (read it again from the link in the first post of this thread). His final design uses no electricity, is super easy to clean and start up, uses fuel efficiently and has variable heat output. Unless you need a very high BTU burner to heat a very large area this sure looks like a simple way to heat a shop.


Rodger Sanders design oil pool works and he is a great guy for posting it. But keep in mind it is a soot and ash maker because of the low temperatures. If that is all you want, believe me, thats great. But if you are looking for a reliable, hot, clean burn, with almost no ash or crud buildup. You need lots of air.

I attached a quick sketch (sorry about the quality as I am headed out the door in about 10 mins.) This is a proven design and a easy build. The oil and air are metered. The chamber gets very hot and holds the heat which is key to burning all the soot and crud. I used 1 ton brake drums but any size could be used if you adapt the design around it. I'm thinking heavy truck drums would work well, but you need much more btu's to make it efficient.
 

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